God's Attitude Toward Homosexuality

[IndigoChild5559]

Because of this thread, I have discovered that I am very much against Homosexuality, not open minded at all, not one bit. In the past I've resisted judging the conduct because I felt there was some sort of Genetic reason, but so far, no proof has surfaced. I was doing an internet search and the information concluded that all animals can and some do engage in homosexual conduct. I grew up on a farm and did not see it. I still feel that it is not my place to judge anyone. In the future, because of the conduct of some people on a present thread about it, I'll likely just block them. If you want to be homosexual, that is your business but I do not want it pushed in my face.

Then came the statements about God being Jesus and the writer did not appear to know that there are a number of views on this. Go your way in peace, I'm done.

Ellen, I don't believe that gays choose what they are attracted to anymore than you do. It doesn't really matter whether it is genetic, epigenetic, environmental, or some combination. The point is that who we are attracted to isn't a choice.

That said, we all choose our behavior. I'm divorced, and I don't mess around. Last time I had sex was almost 20 years ago. Do I like it? No, but I can handle it, and I'm a happy and fulfilled person. I don't expect anything of anyone else that I don't ask of myself.

Most Jew do not share my views. This comes from my Orthodox training.

 

[Mindmaster]

I was Orthodox for a while, and there was a Friday afternoon that I didn't make it home in time for candle lighting, and was stuck driving on the Shabbat (using a combustion engine aka kindling a flame) all because there had been a major accident on the freeway.

Another time, I had gone all night without sleep. I wasn't thinking right. I heated up cream of wheat in the meat pan, and then ate it. That would qualify as accidental also, violating not cooking a kid in its mother's milk.

And yes there have been cases where siblings separated at birth meet and marry and find out later that they are brother and sister. Surely unintentional incest.

If you read Leviticus 11, it gives one example after another of unintentional sins for which sin offerings are required.

Leviticus is good reading... all the dirty fun stuff goes on in there, I mean.. obviously I don't believe a damn word of it, but I couldn't think of a better book to scare the **** out of some kids with.

 

[Mindmaster]

Don't be dense.

I wasn't. I thought a sin required your participation. Like you couldn't help yourself, or did it anyway, etc. (I don't personally believe in sin at all, I was just trying to determine what was the variance of my understanding versus the other posters.)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Leviticus is good reading... all the dirty fun stuff goes on in there, I mean.. obviously I don't believe a damn word of it, but I couldn't think of a better book to scare the **** out of some kids with.

The very fact that these things were specifically forbidden means that they were going on in the surrounding culture. The pagan cultures that existed at that time had a culture that said scratch your itch, whatever it may be. Judaism completely overturned that and said sex was to be kept between men and women within the bounds of marriage, and that being fruitful and multiplying was a mitzvah. You couldn't have two more opposite ways of life.

I don't think it scared me when I was five and learned that people had sex with animals. I just thought they were... well, I didn't know the word perverted back then, but I sure do now. As a five year old, my concern was that the animals were hurt.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Ellen, I don't believe that gays choose what they are attracted to anymore than you do. It doesn't really matter whether it is genetic, epigenetic, environmental, or some combination. The point is that who we are attracted to isn't a choice.

That said, we all choose our behavior. I'm divorced, and I don't mess around. Last time I had sex was almost 20 years ago. Do I like it? No, but I can handle it, and I'm a happy and fulfilled person. I don't expect anything of anyone else that I don't ask of myself.

Most Jew do not share my views. This comes from my Orthodox training.

I was married almost 39 years with three children, one adopted. Then my whole world just blew up as fast as what happened to Job. Apologizing and weeping before G_d did nothing, except it did free me to seek him exclusively. Not understanding at all, most thought I was gay and rejected me. These days I have very limited contact with one daughter.

Though I would not have chosen this life, it is what my Creator asks of me, and I try to obey in all things. Though I do have a bit of well cooked bacon at times.

Lately I'm of the opinion that there are perhaps a dozen or so major scriptures that we should dwell on, and use to pattern our lives. The rest should be read and known, but not dwelled upon. In my belief, I can be as close as I wish to as a daughter of G_d. Its been 15 years since I had sex. I'm 71, and in declining health and I am content with the path that the creator has before me.

 

[Jollybear]

I'm sure they don't think that stallions that mate with their own filly daughters are sinful either. It doesn't mean it's right for humans to do.

Horse needs to go to jail.

 

[SomeRandom]

Because of this thread, I have discovered that I am very much against Homosexuality, not open minded at all, not one bit. In the past I've resisted judging the conduct because I felt there was some sort of Genetic reason, but so far, no proof has surfaced. I was doing an internet search and the information concluded that all animals can and some do engage in homosexual conduct. I grew up on a farm and did not see it. I still feel that it is not my place to judge anyone. In the future, because of the conduct of some people on a present thread about it, I'll likely just block them. If you want to be homosexual, that is your business but I do not want it pushed in my face.

Then came the statements about God being Jesus and the writer did not appear to know that there are a number of views on this. Go your way in peace, I'm done.

To be fair there's no genetic reason (that has thus far been discovered) for people being heterosexual. It's far more likely we are inherently bicurious, if not bisexual to some degree.
And there are plenty of actual documented cases of animals having gay sex. Hell, Black Swans have a high rate of same sex parenting.
Also absolutely no one would be "pushing" this in anyone's faces if various religious organisations didn't make such a big kuffule over it in the first place. It was even illegal for a while in the West, still punishable by jail or death in some places.
I mean, not having a go at you specifically. But the "gay is sinful" crowd kind of invited homosexuality to be pushed in their faces from the onset. What you are seeing is literally just the pushback against dehumanisation. People don't like that happening to them, oddly enough.

 

[Ellen Brown]

To be fair there's no genetic reason (that has thus far been discovered) for people being heterosexual. It's far more likely we are inherently bicurious, if not bisexual to some degree.
And there are plenty of actual documented cases of animals having gay sex. Hell, Black Swans have a high rate of same sex parenting.
Also absolutely no one would be "pushing" this in anyone's faces if various religious organisations didn't make such a big kuffule over it in the first place. It was even illegal for a while in the West, still punishable by jail or death in some places.
I mean, not having a go at you specifically. But the "gay is sinful" crowd kind of invited homosexuality to be pushed in their faces from the onset. What you are seeing is literally just the pushback against dehumanisation. People don't like that happening to them, oddly enough.

Not pushing. Just scrupulously staying out of it. I've had people tell me that if I do not loudly support it then I am abusively against it. I'm not gay or any sort of sexual, so I don't know anything about it and do not plan to do it.

 

[SomeRandom]

Not pushing. Just scrupulously staying out of it. I've had people tell me that if I do not loudly support it then I am abusively against it. I'm not gay or any sort of sexual, so I don't know anything about it and do not plan to do it.

Some people take things too far. Always have, always will. You'll find that with literally everything under the sun. I've had people claim I was racist simply for failing to rally a war cry over (insert cause here) loudly. Despite being literally biracial.

 

[BilliardsBall]

lol...
It sounds like the trial to Socrates. He was not supposed to ask Athenians uncomfortable questions

The Socrates trial ended when he died. Skwim put Jesus and Christians on trial daily, 2,000 years after the faith started. He's unhinged IMHO.

 

[Prestor John]

According to many Christians god doesn't condemn romantic attraction or sexual attraction between members of the same sex; however, physically acting on that attraction is a huge No-no, even an abomination worthy of the death penalty.

So just what is it about touching pee pees that is so much worse than simply wanting to? What are the inherent underpinnings of this physical transgression that sets it apart from the attraction itself and make it worthy of such severe condemnation?

Physically expressing homosexual attraction is far worse than just than just the attraction because_______________fill in the blank______________ (and no "because the Bible tells me so" kinds of answers please).


.

All humans have a desire to commit sin, but God only judges us based on the sins we commit.

God does not want us to desire sin. He wants us to overcome these weaknesses by having faith in His Son and following Him.

Homosexuality contradicts our eternal nature. We are the children of God and as such we are eternal beings able to grow up and become like Him.

God lives according to Eternal Law. He creates according to Eternal Law. Acting against these Eternal Laws creates nothing and limits our potential.

 

[Skwim]

God does not want us to desire sin. He wants us to overcome these weaknesses by having faith in His Son and following Him.

And what of millions of disadvantaged people in the world who never got the message, or, having got the message, remained unconvinced---god's messengers were failures. I assume all these people (around 66% of the world's population) get an automatic ride to hell. Nice guy, this god of yours.

Homosexuality contradicts our eternal nature.

So why does god create creatures who are sexually attracted to the same sex. Obviously it isn't a choice we make because I certainly don't remember making the choice to be heterosexual, and neither do any of my friends I've talked to. Do you remember making the choice?

.

 

[stvdv]

All humans have a desire to commit sin, but God only judges us based on the sins we commit.

Right. The Bible clearly states "Do not judge". I never read "Do not judge except homosexuals thou shalt judge". So those who judge have a ticket for hell, right?!

So why does god create creatures who are sexually attracted to the same sex. Obviously it isn't a choice we make because I certainly don't remember making the choice to be heterosexual, and neither do any of my friends I've talked to. Do you remember making the choice?

Right. At least they are a good challenge for the Christians to follow God in "Do not judge" which most of them (90% is my estimation) horribly fail

 

[Prestor John]

And what of millions of disadvantaged people in the world who never got the message, or, having got the message, remained unconvinced---god's messengers were failures.

Your understanding of God's plan for His children is comparable to that of a suckling babe.

Have you ever given time to studying it? Are you even able to learn?

I assume all these people (around 66% of the world's population) get an automatic ride to hell. Nice guy, this god of yours.

Why would you assume that?

So why does god create creatures who are sexually attracted to the same sex.

Why does God allow any of us to have imperfections?

Obviously it isn't a choice we make because I certainly don't remember making the choice to be heterosexual, and neither do any of my friends I've talked to. Do you remember making the choice?

We all agreed to enter into a world under the conditions of mortality.
ho

 

[Prestor John]

Right. The Bible clearly states "Do not judge".

Actually, the Bible does not say that at all.

Christ said,

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

The Lord counseled us to be fair and righteous in our judgment, not to never judge for ourselves.

I never read "Do not judge except homosexuals thou shalt judge".

Why do you assume that this homosexual man was the only person expelled from their congregation?

All of these organizations have the right to govern their own affairs. If any of their members commits a deed they deem worthy of expulsion, they are within their rights to expel the member.

So those who judge have a ticket for hell, right?!

Not in the least bit for God wants all those who would follow Him to exercise righteous judgment.

Right. At least they are a good challenge for the Christians to follow God in "Do not judge" which most of them (90% is my estimation) horribly fail

You are woefully ignorant of these matters.

 

[Skwim]

Your understanding of God's plan for His children is comparable to that of a suckling babe.
Have you ever given time to studying it? Are you even able to learn?
Why would you assume that?
Why does God allow any of us to have imperfections?
We all agreed to enter into a world under the conditions of mortality.ho

Your tired old ploy asserting that someone's incapable of understanding X so you don't have to answer the question is duly noted. As Is your answering a question with a question or a platitude.

When you develop the ability to engage in an honest exchange of ideas let me know . . . . . .or not.

.

 

[Prestor John]

Your tired old ploy asserting that someone's incapable of understanding X and therefore you don't have to answer the question is duly noted.

You're asking me to basically describe the entirety of God's Plan for His children.

If I made several ignorant and false statements about a topic and then asked you to explain it to me in it's entirety, I'm sure you would not only note my ignorance, but you would also ask me if I've ever taken the time to study the given topic way before you ever went into any lengthy explanations yourself.

You would not put yourself out there, committing time and effort, to someone who obviously has no desire to learn about the topic.

So stop trying to high road me.

As Is your answering a question with a question or a platitude.

Your question about why God would make creatures with a same-sex attraction alludes, again, to your extreme ignorance.

If you thought about it even for a second you'd realize that a lot of God's dealings with Mankind comprise Him commanding them to avoid committing various sins.

If God counsels men not become angry, why did He make creatures that were able to get angry?

If God commands men not to kill, why did He allow men the ability to harm others?

So, my question to you, which was why God allows any of us to have imperfections, was intended to point to the center of your dilemma, but instead it exposed your shallow heart.

You don't really care about the actual answer. You have your grievances and that's all you want.

When you develop the ability to engage in an honest exchange of ideas let me know . . . . . .or not.

You are literally incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

It's a waste of time for me at this point.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Most of the time when this little factoid is brought up, the homophobes simply state that there are no homosexual animals. Makes them feel more righteous, I guess.

Of course there are instances of homosexuality in nature. Nature has all sorts of crazy stuff. Did you know that some animals will change their sex depending on the enviroment? But getting back to moral things, there are animals such as hamsters that do it with their own mothers and sisters and daughters. Chimpanzees even rape. As humans, we know not to do this. We are not hamsters. We are not chimpanzees. This is NOT to say it's okay to bully gays. It is never okay to bully anyone. I'm just -pointing out that the "well, animals do it" is not an argument that it is therefore okay for humans to do it.

The long and short of it is this: we have natural animal instincts that tell us to do this or that, including to have sex and whom to have sex with, and we also have a conscience that tells us not to hurt others and to do things for the benefit of the community, not me me me. If there is a conflict, we are to put our conscience ahead of our instincts.

And don't assume that just because I have more traditional mores that my orientation is at the top of the bell shaped curve or that I'm gender typical. I make the choice to live as I do and I'm happy and fulfilled.

 

[Ellen Brown]

All humans have a desire to commit sin, but God only judges us based on the sins we commit.

God does not want us to desire sin. He wants us to overcome these weaknesses by having faith in His Son and following Him.

Homosexuality contradicts our eternal nature. We are the children of God and as such we are eternal beings able to grow up and become like Him.

God lives according to Eternal Law. He creates according to Eternal Law. Acting against these Eternal Laws creates nothing and limits our potential.

My only exception to what you say is that I find no place in the Bible where we are to judge each other. As to the BOM, I don't know. Judgement of one another is usurping the power of God. I mean that as harshly as I can.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

My only exception to what you say is that I find no place in the Bible where we are to judge each other. As to the BOM, I don't know. Judgement of one another is usurping the power of God. I mean that as harshly as I can.

The Jewish sacred texts simply teach to judge others FAIRLY, even to judge with love -- the two are not a contradiction:

...do not favor the poor or show deference to the rich; judge your neighbor fairly...You shall not hate your kinsman in your heart. Reprove your neighbor, but incur no guilt against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. [19:16-17]

I think people get confused because Jesus, who railed against HYPOCRISY said, Judge not lest ye also be judged. But those pulling this verse out of its context always seem to be those doing wrong who want to be left alone so that they can sin in peace LOL

First let's look at the entire passage.

1. “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Matthew 7:1-3

The very first thing you notice is that the passage isn't about judgment, it's about HYPOCRISY. So verse 1 must be read in this context, or it is misread, misquoted. Basically, if I'm embezzling from the office, I have no right to look down on my kid for getting caught stealing Twizzlers from the store. But if I'm not stealing anything, I have every right, even an obligation, to tell an embezzler or a kid with sticky hands that what they are doing is wrong.

And just in case you might have any doubts about this interpretation, let me throw in what Jesus is reputed to have said in Mathew 7:24. "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly." So Jesus actually commands his followers to judge. But he also teaches them how to do it the right way. It sounds in this particular verse like Jesus is inspiring Martin Luther King Jr when King talked of judgment not by the color of our skin, but the content of our character. Aw come on, everyone loves MLK.

This whole recent idea that somehow Jesus said not to judge anyone is a terrible idea that enables evil. Do you really think that people should stand by and say nothing when others rob, rape, murder, molest? Or even lesser things... Should people say nothing while a bully verbally tears apart someone who has gender identity issues for example? Would you not pipe up if your spouse was loosing their cool and angrily shoving the bottle into your sick and crying babies mouth? How far will you let the excuse go? Can you see the Pittsburgh spree shooter standing up in court and saying, "Don't judge me!"

It is usually people with soft, loving hearts who get taken in by this new sneak attack on society. They so don't want to hurt people's feelings. But you take any virtue and develop it at the expense of other virtues and it soon becomes a vice.

I think it's easier for me to avoid this pitfall because of my exposure to Jewish teaching. Dennis Prager was especially helpful to me on this topic back in the 90s.