1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured God can do anything. Can He commit suicide? Omnipotent Paradox explained.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by questfortruth, May 3, 2021.

  1. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,522
    Ratings:
    +402
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    Can God create a stone that He cannot lift?
    Answer: no, the Omnipotent One cannot make
    such a stone because it is a suicide, and the latter is sin. Any sin is an act of non-existence.
    Because sin is emptiness, the absence of
    any meaning, the God of Existence and living
    does only existent actions. Satan, the evil spirit of non-existence and death, does the non-existent actions only: he is the father of sin. For example, the tobacco industry produces cancer cases. It serves the evil authorities to depopulate the planet. The satan does not exist in God's objective opinion. The satan is not existent. The satan is the border of our reality, inside satan is Absolute Nothing. It is like a black hole: the hole in our reality. He is there, but he can not be full of life and existence: the sickness is the absence of Health. Thus, sickness does not exist. The satan is absolute sickness.

    The question about stone-lifting has hidden meaning, the skeptic asks can God lose divinity, own divine powers. All those Omnipotent Paradox formulations can be put into the question: can God commit suicide? But the answer is no, also because the Christian God is Omnipresent, and so, if He becomes dead in 2021, then He was dead when He was creating the Universe. But that is not possible, because the world exists now. Also because God is not mad and crazy. He is Spirit of Wisdom, mental Health, and Life, and so, can not commit suicide even in principle. He can do only reasonable actions, not the crazy ones. Therefore the German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche with his "God is Dead" must be understood not literally, he was referring to the modern and post-modern apostasy.
     
    #1 questfortruth, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  2. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,941
    Ratings:
    +13,295
    Religion:
    not a theist
    So you are saying that God can not make a stone that he can not lift because it is suicide which is a sin?
    But that The Satan can?
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    23,720
    Ratings:
    +6,843
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I do not believe that omnipotent means God can do anything, I believe omnipotent means God is All-Powerful.
    God can do anything that is within His nature to do but God cannot do anything.

    For example:
    God cannot become a man because then God would not be God, God would be a man.
    God cannot die because God is not subject to death since God is not a mortal creature.
    God cannot write scriptures because God is spirit so He does not have hands.
    God can send men to write scriptures on His behalf and that is what God does.
    God cannot speak because God does not have a mouth since God is not a human.
    God can speak through the Holy Spirit which acts as an intermediary between God and His Messengers.
    God cannot have a biological son because God is not a biological creature.
    God can have a figurative Son as Jesus was to God who was Jesus' figurative Father.
    God cannot have biological children because God is not a biological creature.
    God can have figurative children as we all are God's figurative children.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,522
    Ratings:
    +402
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    The satan does not exist. The satan is not existent. The satan is the border of our reality, inside satan is Absolute Nothing. It is like a black hole: the hole in our reality.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,941
    Ratings:
    +13,295
    Religion:
    not a theist
    Why would you make this claim about an entity that does not exist:

    Satan, the evil spirit of non-existence and death, does the non-existent actions only: he is the father of sin.​
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,941
    Ratings:
    +13,295
    Religion:
    not a theist
    This is yet another point that theists can not agree on.
    What God can and can not do...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,522
    Ratings:
    +402
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    He is there, but he can not be full of life and existence: the sickness is the absence of Health. Thus, sickness does not exist. The satan is absolute sickness.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    23,720
    Ratings:
    +6,843
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yup.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    23,720
    Ratings:
    +6,843
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    My beliefs exactly.

    “The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.

    Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.”

    Some Answered Questions, p. 264

    74: THE NONEXISTENCE OF EVIL
     
  10. darkskies

    darkskies Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2021
    Messages:
    489
    Ratings:
    +398
    Religion:
    None
    The problem is trying to apply logic to infinities. It just doesn't work. If a deity has infinite anything, that is an end to reasoning.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  11. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,941
    Ratings:
    +13,295
    Religion:
    not a theist
    You apparently are using definitions I am unaware of.
     
  12. darkskies

    darkskies Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2021
    Messages:
    489
    Ratings:
    +398
    Religion:
    None
    How are you able to make sense of this in the first place :grimacing:
     
  13. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,941
    Ratings:
    +13,295
    Religion:
    not a theist
    Seems to me I was not.
    I only thought I was until he started being extremely obvious that the words he is using have radically different definitions than what I am familiar with.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,851
    Ratings:
    +6,806
    Religion:
    deist
    Have you got a source for all that you have tried to teach us?

    The bible clearly shows that sin is breaking the laws of Moses. Each law (apart from sacrificial/ceremonial ones was written to increase the strength, health, success, wellbeing and cohesion of the Israelites.

    That's it! Sin just reduces or ends those benefits.

    Sin leads to Sickness., etc

    Nothing else. Christianity gets that so wrong.
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    12,309
    Ratings:
    +6,978
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    God can do anything. Can He commit suicide?

    Depends on your definition of God
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    13,135
    Ratings:
    +20,301
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    Suicide only appears in transactional reality. So as I see it, God can commit suicide in transactional reality as a result of ignorance of his nature...ignorance of being God. This is evidenced with each human that takes their own life. However, God cannot commit suicide in full awareness of its own being.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48,690
    Ratings:
    +4,854
    some time ago....someone posted a scenario portraited by actors

    God as the old gray haired figure of renoun
    and the devil as a gun slinger

    somehow the devil got the drop on the Old Guy
    and shot Him

    then took God's throne as if that item contained the power of creation
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48,690
    Ratings:
    +4,854
    yeah .....does seem the paradox

    the First to say.....I AM!
    would be able to say.....I AM NOT!
     
  19. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    2,695
    Ratings:
    +425
    Religion:
    Christian
    I know I can,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I don't mean by that that I am Satan.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,082
    Ratings:
    +607
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    Sorry, I disagree with that, I believe God could do that. And, if He later would want to lift it, He could create more power to Him so that He could lift it.

    I think even suicide would be possible for God. However, I agree with you in that it would not be reasonable and I don't think God would do it.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
Loading...