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Featured God can do anything. Can He commit suicide? Omnipotent Paradox explained.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by questfortruth, May 3, 2021.

  1. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I see confusion......

    God created reality
    if you ask Him to break the rules He created......
    the circumstances would need to be .....special

    If you are hungered.....tell the stone to be bread
     
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  2. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    God would have to take on the nature of a servant to become a man, as Jesus did.
    If God became a man and the man died His soul would live on, so God would not be killed.
    Writing scripture is what God inspires humans to do,,,,,,,,,,,,but God could do it if He wanted, He did write the Ten Commandments on stone. He might need practice to write with a pencil however.
    God can speak to us through our spirit and in the Bible there are incidents where God spoke in an audible voice.
    God can send His Son into the world and use a woman to provide a place for Him to develop and be born as a baby. The man Jesus was the descendant of David through His mother Mary and was and is God's Son.
    The Bible tells us that God is the Father of our spirits (Heb 12:9) Our spirits are the living part of us from God, without that we would be chemicals. The New Testament tells us that Jesus and the Father can come and dwell in us when God's Spirit becomes joined to our spirit when we believe that Jesus is the Christ,,,,,,,,the Son of God.
     
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  3. MatthewA

    MatthewA Member

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    God can do anything also as it does not go against His Character.

    His Character is Light (Fire), Spirit, and Love. According to the bible:

    Here are three scriptures that state about God and His character if you are curious:

    1. IN ACCORDANCE TO ReligiousForums Rules Number 8: DISCLAIMER ~ What YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE about THESE scriptures are UP TO YOU ~
    2. ~ Am just sharing them with you, so you can see where it is the source material is to find out about God and His Character.

    (What you decide from here has nothing to do with me personally for making this very clear you are responsible for yourself.)

    John 4:24 - God is Spirit
    Hebrews 12:29 - God is a consuming fire
    1 John 4:7-21 - God is Love
    Titus 1:2 - God does not lie
    James 1:13-15 God does not tempt
     
  4. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I would assume God has a nature that he can't, and won't go against. So suicide isn't an option nor a consideration.

    Nor can God do what is logically impossible.

    Other then that God is omnipotent.

    I think, don't know, but assume that everybody knows and accepts the definition of God is just that way.

    God's nature is life and not death. Death and evil are not within God's nature. God doesn't and won't consider death and evil as worthy options for many reasons. Forever!

    God is also defined as being the enemy of evil. God loathes death and evil.

    I'm an atheist and I am aware of this yet I see people want to argue about so called paradoxes without knowing the full extent of the definition of God.

    So to say God isn't omnipotent because he can't do death and evil is a senseless argument.

    Rather there's no evidence that an omnipotent God exists.
     
  5. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    MY FAVORITES ARE:





    NEW RESULT:

    A being who would know everything also knows that God exists. Because God
    is Omniscient. Therefore, among all knowledge, there is also this: ``God
    exists.''

    It is not just another form of the ontological argument of St.~Anselm. Instead,
    I have discovered something new.
    Yes, the Christian God has many properties, for example: Omnipresence, perfect
    Love, objective Judgment. But it is enough to prove the existence of the
    Omniscient Being, in order to prove the existence of the Christian God. Why?
    Because God is Spirit. And so, it is enough to prove Omniscience, because the
    latter is the Spirit of Knowledge. God as being Knowledge himself knows the
    answer even to such mathematical conjectures, which cannot have logical proofs
    [due to the Incompleteness Theorem of Kurt G\"odel]. And so, having proven the
    Spirit, we have concluded that the Spirit of other Christian properties (Love,
    Judgment, Holiness) does exist. It is the proof not for God in general, but
    for the Christian God.
    I have no PREMISES, I have 100\% sure proof.
    The proof can be understood even by a non-educated skeptic.
    I like the word IF,
    it is not from satan and it is often used in proofs: If some being gets to
    know all, then he will get to know that God exists. Thus, God exists. But I
    can use the word WHEN: When you get educated enough, you will become the theist.
    Why? Because God is the theist for He is the origin of Theism: one of His
    names is Theism.
    Somebody could ask: ``And the one who knows everything, does he know how to
    learn something new?'' This is not a question, but a statement, which says in
    short: ``There is no God.'' Just like the question of Pontius Pilat
    ``What is Truth?'' (John 18:38) was a rhetoric one.
    The expression ``Who created God?'' is not a question, but the statement
    ``There is no God'', expressed differently, but also in a popular way. In the
    same way, the question ``Can God create a stone that He cannot lift'' is not a
    question, but a statement of ``There is no God.''
    IT IS BECAUSE THE Reason tells us that there is no proof of the ``Absence'' of
    God, and cannot be even in principle. Hereby God is not an alien, who lives
    in a distant galaxy, but He lives on Earth because He is Omnipresent (so one
    can easily find and reach Him). And such rhetoric questions above like ``who
    has created God?'' are simply another variant of the original ``No God''
    written in a less crazy appearance.
     
    #25 questfortruth, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  6. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    @questfortruth -

    The fact that you're still posting might be considered by some to be evidence that G-d is neither omnipotent nor omnibenevolent.
     
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  7. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Active Member

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    God won't die from lifting.

    Avoidable horrible things come from Satan. Cancer might be natural (not from Satan), unless caused by tobacco, which was avoidable by not smoking.

    Other avoidable things that are caused by Satan are war and torture camps. The bible says that the Dragon and Beast created wars in Babylon, Iraq, and they are Satanic demons from hell (presidents W. Bush and his father).

    The snake of the Garden of Eden was obviously a minion of evil. The United States presidents who attacked Babylon, Iraq are, according to the bible, obviously Satanic demons from the bottomless pit of hell. Apparently, there are many evil demons. Presumably Satan does exist, and is mentioned (as Lucifer) in the bible. Jesus said that Baal Zebub (Lord of Flies) is Satan....known as beelzebub. Satan goes by many names.

    Symbols of Satan are all around us. Pentagrams (inside the Pentagon, the building that plans wars, wars which God opposes).

    Some of our leaders were Satanists. George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush (his son) were members of Skull and Bones. Skull and Bones had its own bible, and Satanic rituals. They actually had cauldrons of unspeakable things (eye of newt, toe of toad) and said demon summoning incantations over it while stirring the cauldron. Their grandfather, Prescott Bush, stole the bones of an Indian Chief for Skull and Bones.

    Presidents W. Bush and GHW Bush were both into CIA Project MKULTRA, mind control. They shipped mind altering narcotics from the Mediene drug cartel of Colombia through Manuel Noriega of Panama (before he was leader of Panama). MKULTRA was also into ESP, and they tortured psychics like David Moorehouse to get more information.

    Before the Iran Contra scandal, GHW Bush's roommate at the Phillips Academy, Andover, Connecticut, was Hooker, stepson of CIA agent George DeMohrenschildt (coworker of Lee Harvey Oswald).

    Where was Poppy Bush on 11/22/1963?
     
  8. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    I am just much stronger than your god.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    If God is Spirit how could God become flesh, as Christians believe?
    God becoming flesh would go against God's Character.

    I believe that God was manifested in the flesh but that is not the same as being incarnated in the flesh.

    The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
     
  10. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Adolf Hitler has no origin in God, but in satan.

    Thus, Adolf is there, but he does not exist: one can lose the right to exist.

    It is not about the stone:

    Can God create stone, that He can not lift?

    It is about the action of God, which ends His existence as Omnipotent God.
     
    #30 questfortruth, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  11. MatthewA

    MatthewA Member

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    Hello Trailblazer you bring up some interesting questions, but seems you already have the answer of God was manifest in the flesh.

    What does manifest mean? What does God manifesting in the flesh mean? How is the Flesh justified in the spirit ~ that is seen of the of messengers, was preached unto the Gentiles ~ believed on in the world, and received up to glory.

    What does all this mean? Maybe more expounding on the rest of the scriptures might make even more so clear the answer here of ~ God being manifest in the flesh.

    Hope those who keep seeking are able to find an answer when it comes to these questions; surely an answer can be found when it pertains the context of the bible itself, in all of its fullness which a lot can be learned from.
     
    #31 MatthewA, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God would have to take on the nature of a servant to become a man, as Jesus did.

    Jesus was a Servant of God as we hopefully strive to be, but God can never be a servant because God is the master.

    If God became a man and the man died His soul would live on, so God would not be killed.

    God cannot become a man because God is Spirit. God was manifested in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. All of God's attributes were manifested in Jesus, which is what Jesus said "I am in the Father, and the Father in me" but God did not incarnate His Essence and reveal it to man.

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Writing scripture is what God inspires humans to do,,,,,,,,,,,,but God could do it if He wanted, He did write the Ten Commandments on stone. He might need practice to write with a pencil however.

    God did not write the Ten Commandments. The Mind of God communicated to the mind of Moses through the Holy Spirit and inspired Moses to etch them in stone, if that story is even true.

    God can speak to us through our spirit and in the Bible there are incidents where God spoke in an audible voice.

    I believe that God can communicate to our spirit and maybe God spoke to certain people on the Bible, but that does not mean God does that anymore. That was a different age and there were reasons fro what God did back then.

    God can send His Son into the world and use a woman to provide a place for Him to develop and be born as a baby. The man Jesus was the descendant of David through His mother Mary and was and is God's Son.

    Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, and that consequently His birth was quite miraculous, but God was not the biological Father of Jesus because God is not a biological entity who can have children.

    The New Testament tells us that Jesus and the Father can come and dwell in us when God's Spirit becomes joined to our spirit when we believe that Jesus is the Christ,,,,,,,,the Son of God.

    Figuratively, Jesus and God's Spirit can dwell in us but that does not mean that the literally live inside our bodies, it means they have an effect upon our souls, and are soul is who we are so it is "us."
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Below is an excerpt from an article that explains what I believe it means.

    “The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

    One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

    The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.”

    Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings
    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    I believe I know what this means because it is pretty straightforward, except for the part where it says that God was justified in the Spirit. What do you believe that means?
     
  14. MatthewA

    MatthewA Member

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    Hello Trailblaze

    Will try to be fast for you to explain my position.

    Okay, will only give you some scripture that will maybe help see my view when it comes to these things about God manifest in flesh.

    Personally believe that The Word of God ~ manifest in the flesh named the Lord Jesus Christ according to scriptures. And God was with-in Christ during His ministry and that is why all of the scriptures you are sharing show that Jesus Christ is talking about His Father, and how Jesus Christ and His Father are one together.

    How is that possible is the question?

    Here are some of the scriptures that would be used to back the claim Jesus Christ is expressed image of the invisible God.

    Hebrews 1:3 ~ The Son is the radiance of God's glory and representation of his being
    Colossians 1:15 - The Son is the image of the invisible God
    2 Corinthians 5:10-19 ~ God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself
    Matthew 1:23: God with us - through the Son by the spirit
    John 14:9 - if you have seen me you have seen the Father ~ (Son as the expressed image of the Father)

    These are some scriptures; that would go to support that Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God ~ Whom is the Son of God, according to the scriptures that may be wrong, because some believe that the bible is wrong.

    Thank you for taking time to share the information you provided.




    In part it talking about the flesh,

    God was manifest in the flesh (the Word ~ the Lord Jesus Christ ~ Fellowship with God)

    Was justified by the spirit - The holy spirit, seen of angels

    The Word was preached unto the Gentiles, and believed on in the inhabitants of those areas who heard of Christ Jesus, about the promises and the things of the Gospel of Christ has to offer, ~ And was received up into glory.

    This would be my view of the scripture though it may be wrong view to look at it my way.
     
    #34 MatthewA, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  15. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Firstly, I said nothing about whether or not what I posed represented my personal position. I specifically said "some". Secondly, just for the sake of clarification, you are saying that as an Eastern Orthodox Christian you do not worship the G-d who appears in Hebrew scripture?
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I also believe that Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God ~ Whom is the Son of God. Although I do not believe that Jesus was the biological Son of God, I believe in the Virgin Birth, so I believe that Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, and that His birth was quite miraculous.

    The following is what I believe:

    Jesus was the Son of God, but the Son is not identical to the Father since the Father possesses certain Attributes that the Son does not possess: The Attributes that are unique to God: Eternal, Holy, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, Sovereign, and Immaterial, nobody except God can have those Attributes.

    However, the Father is in the Son.

    John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

    John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    To me, the Father is in the Son means that Jesus was a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror and as such Jesus is the mirror image of the invisible God. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” meaning that God is visible and manifest in Jesus.

    “I and my Father are one (John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same.
     
  17. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Kind of like everything we know and understand breaks down before we get to the moment of the big bang. Our knowledge is still in infant stages even though we think we know and understand everything.
     
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  18. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Judaism's god and Christian God do not coincide. For example, in Judaism god is not Holy Trinity.
     
  19. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    The natural values become bounded in
    Proof of Jeremiah 5:22

    , to avoid infinities and
    singularities: ``the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it
    cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but
    they cannot cross it.'' Jeremiah 5:22 NIV. The bounded spacetime curvature
    comes with cutting off the singular areas [of our universe], including the Big
    Bang. This means that the world began not in the moment of the Big Bang, but
    later. Prior to the existence of the actual world, there was a Virtual World,
    Virtual Reality. Remnants of this totally Virtual World are Dark Matter and
    Dark Energy.
     
  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The weight of a stone depends on gravity. The question is more complicated than it seems,,,,,,,,,,scientifically at least.
     
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