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Featured God And Homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, May 14, 2020.

  1. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    <facepalm> You, who supports the Biblical sin of homosexual sex, encourages people to be slaves to sin.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Better than being a slave to the sin of false piety...
     
  3. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    If I had piety I wouldn't need my Savior Jesus Christ. Nice try.
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    And yet, your posts abuse it anyway...
     
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  5. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    That's just more of your usual nonsense. You don't know the truth about gay sex being a sin either. You're 0-2 at least.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    1) It's not a contest. 2) You're in no position to be able to determine what I do or don't know about the "truth." 3) Your post reads like a 5-year-old sour-grapes whine. That really the best you got in the way of argument: bluster, a tantrum, and a game of "Who-Got-Your-Nose?"
     
  7. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Iron age thinking is not all there is to the Bible! For example, you know how the disciples asked, "Who sinned? This man or his parents, that he was born blind?" and that Jesus elevated their thinking by responding, "Neither, it's so the power of God [by this next healing] is on display." But the disciples forgot that Moses wrote, "Who makes a man blind or deaf or seeing? It is I, the Lord, I Am!" I encourage you to reread the Bible, this time recognizing how progressive and prescient it is in many ways.

    Science recognizes humanity, but science recognizes procreation as survival of the species, so I think you might be cherry picking there, since homosexuals need a third partner to procreate.

    The Bible doesn't address being born gay, but it does address why some homosexual sex happens, and gives us insight as to how (some) people come to be gay or how some on the scale of sex who identify as straight have gay sex at times.

    Prepubescent men often think girls have coodies, and I didn't want to have sex until I had pubescent sex desire, so "I always knew I liked boys and disliked girls" is part of the myth to me. Again, you see the Bible as myth and whatever society says as binding, so how can we enhance your thinking here?
     
  8. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    I don't have A (ONE) gay friend, but many, and have counseled Christians and non-Christians who struggle with gay desires, so your point that I'm prejudiced is moot. I AM biased, because I'm a fundamentalist, yes, and much of what you presented is subjective and even fashionable today.

    Why would you avoid transparency with me? I'll make it simple for you:

    EVERY gay person I've met/know who never had straight desire/attempted to perform straight sex/cover up/etc. were either distant from their same sex parent/guardian or imprinted when early sexual experience was gay experience.

    I asked a few questions to get you thinking, not to trick you or entrap you, but when people identify as gay today? I should wonder whether they are temporairily so/experimenting/feeling empathy with the persecuted, etc.
     
  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    The Bible does not say male or female genitals are "vile" or "unseemly" in any version I've read.

    The Bible does speak of female homosexuality, as anyone who reads Romans 1 sees if they're not in denial.

    The Bible mentions sex other than intercourse in Song of Songs, so I wouldn't say consensual anal sex is "dirty" for a married couple. Sex is beautiful, made by God, but homosexuality, as the Bible plainly describes, is, like adutery and fornication, destructive to people, families and society.
     
  10. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    There were consequences to the sins you've described above, and the concept that sin exists in the conscience, before specific laws were enacted, is a main point of Romans 5.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Be careful, since you can get in trouble, even on an anonymous forum, for saying something that could be misconstrued about sex with minors. My point was sex has limits--especially where children are concerned, so saying my limits are stupid could be easily misunderstood. Be careful!

    God's complimentary design is evident in sexuality and many other ways, in the two genders of humans. The issue is people turn to homosexuality from lust or brokenness (Romans 1) and God wants us to be wholistic and whole.

    Jesus heals and IMHO you should let Him heal your mindset that everything is clean and decent in bed. It sure is--for married straight couples, who've made vows to one another and often, God.
     
  12. Left Coast

    Left Coast He/Him
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    I literally recommended that you stick to empirical research findings. That's as objective as one can get. I'm sure your MANY gay friends would advise you similarly.

    Asked and answered. Why would I share my inner life with you if you're simply going to accuse me of denial or dishonesty if my experience doesn't match your preconceived worldview?

    If you have SO many gay friends, then if you have any respect for them, or for me, or for the truth, please don't tell us how we feel. We can tell you how we feel. But that also means being objective enough to admit that when our experiences don't match your theology, your theology might just be wrong.

    And now that hypothesis has been falsified. You've met someone who doesn't match that description. So you now have a choice: accuse my of lying/denial, or adjust your worldview to fit the evidence. Which will you do?
     
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  13. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    In other words Romans 1:26-27 says that anal sex of women and men is "vile" and "unseemly" which is why the bible says nothing about female homosexuality.
     
  14. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So what were the consequences for Abraham when he shacked up with his sister Sarah and committed adultery with Hagar? And what were the consequences for Cain(an) after he killed his brother Abel and relocated to Nod and married a Nod girl and lived happily ever after? And is that why Abraham and Noah never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though the ten commandments etc didn't apply to them since biblical morality is obviously just man-made and changes as society changes?
    Which is why most people in civilized countries now support same-sex marriage.
     
  15. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Which is why the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuals since they do not have anal sex as described for heterosexual women in Romans 1:26-27.

    Dream on, Dream on!!! So where does Romans 1:26-27 say anything about female homosexuality, or "women with women working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet" from anal sex with other women as "likewise also the men"?

    That's your personal choice if you like it both ways, but it doesn't change the fact that PauI described anal sex of women and men as "vile" and "unseemly" (Romans 1:26-27).

    And is that why David said that his love with Jonathon was more wonderful than with any of his wives and concubines (2Sam 1:26) and why Jonathon's father was disgusted with their relationship (1Sam 20:30)?

    And IYHO do you also think that Leviticus 18 & 20 says that it's OK to have anal sex with women but not with men since it is disgusting (ie abomination) and degrading because women are subservient to men?
     
    #735 Mitty, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  16. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    It's only a sin if you personally believe that it's a sin. Which is why it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister and commit adultery, and for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, given that the ten commandments etc did not apply to them since biblical morality is obviously just man-made.
     
    #736 Mitty, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  17. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    My hypothesis is yet to be falsified, since you've answered no questions, avoided the subtleties, and simply said, "No, not me." Not me WHAT. You've not always been gay? You never experimented? Tried hetero sex? Your dad/guardian was wonderful? Etc.

    There is a paucity of research into the psychology of sexual imprinting and homosexuality, the more so since some decisions were made in science that don't line up with reality.

    Therefore, I plan to go with my own research, which is talking to many people about their sexuality.

    I didn't tell you how you "feel". I told you the people I know who are gay experience tremendous trauma and brokenness that is not all "from the outside" of themselves.
     
  18. Left Coast

    Left Coast He/Him
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    I wasn't sexually abused or "imprinted" as a child, and had a generally good relationship with my father growing up. And yes I've always been gay. I answered several of your questions, till you started alleging that I was lying simply because my experience didn't match your stereotype.

    Such as? How did you figure out what "reality" is?

    AKA anecdote.

    Yes, you did. The fact that you don't even realize you're doing it is part of the problem.

    Trauma by definition is something that happens to a person, as a result of some event.

    Trauma | Psychology Today

    So yes, all trauma is from outside the person themselves. One example of trauma is being gay or trans and being raised in a deeply homophobic or transphobic home.

    Your anecdotes of gay people you know are not representative of all gay people. You understand that, right?
     
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  19. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    I recently reread the book of Leviticus, and am confident it does not describe anal sex. I encourage you to take your mind from the gutter of sexual deviance and instead be open minded:

    Homosexuals need a third partner to produce a child, have only recently been partially accepted in society, and have exactly what the Bible says, pain and suffering, sometimes persecution-imposed, sometimes self-imposed. IMHO, Jesus wants people to be whole, healed, instead.
     
  20. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    What is a child? How old were you when you had your first sexual experience, and with which gender, if I may ask, please?
     
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