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Global Warming ???

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Just google for "global warming cold" and you will see that things aren't nearly as controversial as you want to believe them, Kathryn.

As I "want to believe them?"

I've been googling this topic off and on for days and I see plenty of controversy within the scientific community.

Look, I'm old enough to remember being taught in school that we were entering another ICE AGE.

At one time in my lifetime of 49 years, the news and bookstores were filled with predictions of a coming ice age - and I guess this made an impression on me.

Here's an example of one of the many articles rampant in the news at that time:

Newsweek on the cooling world

I was an an impressionable age then. And I clearly recall science teachers in school using that article in class, as well as others. I also remember my mother refusing to buy aeresol products because she believed they were bad for the environment and would increase the chances of global cooling.

Like Rick's family, mine was a hippie-ish sort of family. We were very much aware of environmental issues and tried to live as naturally as possible - even to the point of growing our own food, grinding our own wheat, raising our own meat, and using only the most natural products available. Hell, I didn't even drink a Coke till I was about ten years old, my parents were such "radicals!"

1970s awareness


The temperature record as seen in 1975; compare with the next figure.


Instrumental record of global average temperatures.



Concern peaked in the early 1970s, partly because of the cooling trend then apparent (a cooling period began in 1945, and two decades of a cooling trend suggested a trough had been reached after several decades of warming), and partly because much less was then known about world climate and causes of ice ages. Although there was a cooling trend then, climate scientists were aware that predictions based on this trend were not possible - because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[11]). However in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports.
In the 1970s the compilation of records to produce hemispheric, or global, temperature records had just begun.
A history of the discovery of global warming states that: While neither scientists nor the public could be sure in the 1970s whether the world was warming or cooling, people were increasingly inclined to believe that global climate was on the move, and in no small way.[12]
In 1972 Emiliani warned "Man's activity may either precipitate this new ice age or lead to substantial or even total melting of the ice caps..."[13] By 1972 a group of glacial-epoch experts at a conference agreed that "the natural end of our warm epoch is undoubtedly near";[14] but the volume of Quaternary Research reporting on the meeting said that "the basic conclusion to be drawn from the discussions in this section is that the knowledge necessary for understanding the mechanism of climate change is still lamentably inadequate". Unless there were impacts from future human activity, they thought that serious cooling "must be expected within the next few millennia or even centuries"; but many other scientists doubted these conclusions.[15][16]
In 1972, George Kukla and Robert Matthews, in a Science write-up of a conference, asked when and how the current integlacial would end; concluding that "Global cooling and related rapid changes of environment, substantially exceeding the fluctuations experienced by man in historical times, must be expected within the next few millennia or even centuries."[17]

Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now - before anyone picks all this apart, let me remind you that I am not saying these viewpoints are true - other than my OWN viewpoint, which is this:

I remember the big flap about global cooling, and now I'm witnessing a big flap about global warming.

All I'm sure of is this - that man's activities can affect the environment, and that we have a responsibility to our planet to live as gentle a life as possible, and to safeguard our environment. I credit my parents with instilling this belief in me.

I'm also sure of this - that political parties and folks with a wide variety of agendas will never cease using science and the media to fuel people's fears - in order to further their own interests.

It's a tough call and it's hard to cut through all the bull **** to get to the truth.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Pretty much. I'm a bit surprised that so few people share his worries. We ought to expect this predatory stance to Earth to have consequences, after all.
Neither Gore nor anyone else I know of has presented any evidence or mechanism explaining how it has become irreversible,
in spite of the fact that it has reversed before. We should avoid faith based assertions & stick to science.
Climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Btw, I don't say that change won't happen, that it won't be troublesome or that reversal will come quickly.

I was deeply disappointed with GWB way back when he suggested the commerce of air polution quotas among countries.
Such an approach could result in lower carbon & pollution levels for a given cost.

It is simply not reasonable to expect this ever-growing approach to natural resources not to collapse, after all. In all sincerity, we should be discussing how to estabilize population levels and how to better exploit eolic electricity already.
Agreed. But this makes sense even if there were no GW.

But from what I have seen, it is a hard message to sell to Americans. Some of you apparently believe that preserving wealth levels is not only a valid political goal, but even the main one.
Don't infer too much. But preserving wealth ain't all that bad an idea....we just need leadership which isn't at odds with that goal.

Sorry, folks, but the reality of the world just ain't gonna support that. You should have a taste of what true poverty is one of these days. Brazil has one of the most serious spreads of wealth in the world, and let me tell you, it is really troubling.
You guys do have your troubles. But they are your responsibility, not ours.
 
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Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
As I "want to believe them?"

I've been googling this topic off and on for days and I see plenty of controversy within the scientific community.

Look, I'm old enough to remember being taught in school that we were entering another ICE AGE.

At one time in my lifetime of 49 years, the news and bookstores were filled with predictions of a coming ice age - and I guess this made an impression on me.

Here's an example of one of the many articles rampant in the news at that time:

Newsweek on the cooling world

I was an an impressionable age then. And I clearly recall science teachers in school using that article in class, as well as others. I also remember my mother refusing to buy aeresol products because she believed they were bad for the environment and would increase the chances of global cooling.

Like Rick's family, mine was a hippie-ish sort of family. We were very much aware of environmental issues and tried to live as naturally as possible - even to the point of growing our own food, grinding our own wheat, raising our own meat, and using only the most natural products available. Hell, I didn't even drink a Coke till I was about ten years old, my parents were such "radicals!"

1970s awareness


The temperature record as seen in 1975; compare with the next figure.


Instrumental record of global average temperatures.



Concern peaked in the early 1970s, partly because of the cooling trend then apparent (a cooling period began in 1945, and two decades of a cooling trend suggested a trough had been reached after several decades of warming), and partly because much less was then known about world climate and causes of ice ages. Although there was a cooling trend then, climate scientists were aware that predictions based on this trend were not possible - because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[11]). However in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports.
In the 1970s the compilation of records to produce hemispheric, or global, temperature records had just begun.
A history of the discovery of global warming states that: While neither scientists nor the public could be sure in the 1970s whether the world was warming or cooling, people were increasingly inclined to believe that global climate was on the move, and in no small way.[12]
In 1972 Emiliani warned "Man's activity may either precipitate this new ice age or lead to substantial or even total melting of the ice caps..."[13] By 1972 a group of glacial-epoch experts at a conference agreed that "the natural end of our warm epoch is undoubtedly near";[14] but the volume of Quaternary Research reporting on the meeting said that "the basic conclusion to be drawn from the discussions in this section is that the knowledge necessary for understanding the mechanism of climate change is still lamentably inadequate". Unless there were impacts from future human activity, they thought that serious cooling "must be expected within the next few millennia or even centuries"; but many other scientists doubted these conclusions.[15][16]
In 1972, George Kukla and Robert Matthews, in a Science write-up of a conference, asked when and how the current integlacial would end; concluding that "Global cooling and related rapid changes of environment, substantially exceeding the fluctuations experienced by man in historical times, must be expected within the next few millennia or even centuries."[17]

Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now - before anyone picks all this apart, let me remind you that I am not saying these viewpoints are true - other than my OWN viewpoint, which is this:

I remember the big flap about global cooling, and now I'm witnessing a big flap about global warming.

All I'm sure of is this - that man's activities can affect the environment, and that we have a responsibility to our planet to live as gentle a life as possible, and to safeguard our environment. I credit my parents with instilling this belief in me.

I'm also sure of this - that political parties and folks with a wide variety of agendas will never cease using science and the media to fuel people's fears - in order to further their own interests.

It's a tough call and it's hard to cut through all the bull **** to get to the truth.


Actually the whole thing about global cooling was mostly a media hype. The scientific community was much more hesitant about that idea and most opposed it. Many of the major scientific organizations even at that time put their support behind global warming and it turns out that they were right. Here are a couple fun videos that sheds light on "global cooling."
[youtube]EU_AtHkB4Ms[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU_AtHkB4Ms
[youtube]XB3S0fnOr0M[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3S0fnOr0M
Here is a video about a more recent media scare that a shutdown in the gulf stream would lead to an ice age when journalists misunderstood the results of scientific research.
[youtube]kmECHrOcFlc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmECHrOcFlc
 

johnbryan

New Member
scientist discover only and make an theory but they cannot expalin the rapid melting of ice..they forget to read in the revelation in the bible that God command His angel to hold the wind in the FOUR corner of the earth.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Agreed. But this makes sense even if there were no GW.

True enough. Global Warming (or Climate Change), serious as it is, is a consequence of deeper challenges.


Don't infer too much. But preserving wealth ain't all that bad an idea....we just need leadership which isn't at odds with that goal.

'fraid the matter is simply not at that level, Revoltingest. No leadership can change basic ecological and economic facts. We have simply become too wasteful and inconsequential. We will need to stop and revert that, and soon.


You guys do have your troubles. But they are your responsibility, not ours.

Not really. The planet is one alone, and its ecology and economy don't much care for boundaries, much less national ones. Surely you remember the Petrol crisis of the 1970s?
 

iholdit

Active Member
Pointless.



LOL.

The scientific consensus is that climate change is caused by anthropogenic causes and your argument is sure but there is a large segment of dissenters...

So lets focus for a second on this. Do more people believe climate change is caused by man or not? We can quote studies and have a link fest but the point is some of us have done our homework. You have not. When you are arguing from ignorance you do this weird confirmation bias posting and your critical thinking skills seem to fly out the window.

More scientists think that climate change is being driven by anthropogenic causes but you want to use the descriptive term of "LARGE SEGMENT" in terms of the community. And by Large you mean like 700.

How do you accurately represent a group which is clearly smaller then then the consensus as large? You just think 700 is large?

Why are you so strongly opinionated on something you clearly have not spent a lot of time looking into? Why do you care so much to repeat other peoples arguments that I'm not convinced you understand.



This is what I mean... Confirmation bias... You found a link your gonna keep harping on that represents the opinion you apparently already hold. Like a doctor in the 1800's going along with the widespread belief that bloodletting cured sickness.:

Although bloodletting is not a "cure-all", there have been studies that show bloodletting in the form of blood donation can reduce a mans risk of heart disease.
Men Who Donate Blood May Reduce Risk Of Heart Disease, According To KU Medical Center Study

There have been animal studies that show certain animals who are bloodletted live longer etc. I can find more studies if you are interested but many of the older medical practices such as bloodletting, using leeches etc. have been found effective in certain circumstances by modern science.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Bleeding lets some of the toxins in the blood go away. It can be helpful in some circunstances, particularly on males adults (since they do not menstruate and have comparatively robust bodies that can better handle the procedure). I have seen blood donation recommended as a form of letting go of so-called "heavy metals", and it makes sense (although it is not the best argument for donation).
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Actually the whole thing about global cooling was mostly a media hype. The scientific community was much more hesitant about that idea and most opposed it. Many of the major scientific organizations even at that time put their support behind global warming and it turns out that they were right.

Well, hindsight's 20/20, isn't it?

At the time of all the media hype and press that the idea of global cooling was happening or forecast, we didn't have the internet to fall back on to verify things we were told by the press.

We had to do research by actually GOING TO THE LIBRARY and other such inconveniences.

In other words, information was harder to come by.

Now, it's almost the other extreme - there's so MUCH information at our fingertips that it's difficult to sort through and verify.

Either way, people with political and personal agendas use information to further their own goals.

That much has not changed.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Bleeding lets some of the toxins in the blood go away. It can be helpful in some circunstances, particularly on males adults (since they do not menstruate and have comparatively robust bodies that can better handle the procedure). I have seen blood donation recommended as a form of letting go of so-called "heavy metals", and it makes sense (although it is not the best argument for donation).
Hemochromatosis is treated by bloodletting. I know a guy who collects old
iron (woodworking tools), so he really has too much iron in his blood.
 

iholdit

Active Member
Hemochromatosis is treated by bloodletting. I know a guy who collects old
iron (woodworking tools), so he really has too much iron in his blood.

Im actually very impressed that you and luis know this much about bloodletting. This is getting off the subject but are either of you into longevity research?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Im actually very impressed that you and luis know this much about bloodletting. This is getting off the subject but are either of you into longevity research?
Not me. I just happened to know this guy with this really ironic disease.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
It would be more impressive if I knew how to spell thallesemia. That doesn't look right. But I'm too full of cheese dip to move my mouse to research it.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Thanks. My kids carry that trait, so you would think I would know how to spell it.

They don't have the disorder, but they should not marry anyone else who carries the trait. Since it's a rare trait, that's not a huge concern. But if they married another carrier, their children would have a one in four chance of having the full blown disorder, which is fatal.

Carrying the trait creates false readings when they are tested for anemia, and can also cause some symptoms (in my kids' case, it hasn't caused them any problems, other than having to sort out their bloodwork when they were younger, before they were diagnosed as being carriers of the trait).
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Well, hindsight's 20/20, isn't it?

At the time of all the media hype and press that the idea of global cooling was happening or forecast, we didn't have the internet to fall back on to verify things we were told by the press.

We had to do research by actually GOING TO THE LIBRARY and other such inconveniences.

In other words, information was harder to come by.

Now, it's almost the other extreme - there's so MUCH information at our fingertips that it's difficult to sort through and verify.

Either way, people with political and personal agendas use information to further their own goals.

That much has not changed.

I totally agree with you on that. This is why we need to get our information from the scientific community which is overwhelmingly saying that we are causing global warming even though the media and Al Gore have misinterpreted that message a bit. For example, global warming will not produce more hurricanes like the media is spouting out, it will simply make them worse.
 

Sententia

Well-Known Member
Bleeding lets some of the toxins in the blood go away. It can be helpful in some circunstances, particularly on males adults (since they do not menstruate and have comparatively robust bodies that can better handle the procedure). I have seen blood donation recommended as a form of letting go of so-called "heavy metals", and it makes sense (although it is not the best argument for donation).

That sounds a bit hokey to me. Chelation therapy is normally used to treat heavy metal toxicity and other then the threat of kidney failure which would lead to dialysis and not blood letting I don't see the connection.

Bloodletting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chelation therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bloodletting can be useful for very specific circumstances as others noted but IMHO not as a means to remove "toxins" and "heavy metals" from your blood. I'd want to research heavy metals more and what benefits bloodletting would have but I am always suspicious of odd medical arguments.
 
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