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Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.
- Thread starter निताइ dasa
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निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Hari Hari. Thank you so much for this. I love these Bhajans. Especially the Madhurastakam of Sri Vallabhacarya! Everything the Lord does is so sweet
, like honey, that is why He is called Madhav.
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Nitai! I want to share a bhajan with you all that is very dear to my heart. My mother would sing this bhajan all the time when I was a child, and when I understood the lyrics I could not stop tears from coming to my eyes. It is a bhajan by Soordas ji, and it shows the lengths the Lord will go for His devotees. That is why it declares "Sabse Uunchi Prema Sagai"-"the highest relationship is that of Love". (I am writing this at 5am so please forgive my spelling errors).
Please accept my humble translation, and also my commentary on what the verses mean to me
refrain: "sabse oonchi prema sagai"
"The highest relationship is that of Love"
Hmm this line is so profound, because it shows that it is only Love which can unite all. I would like to share a quote by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhara Maharaj on this, which says everyone I want to say about this: "Without love, none can be - none can hold a dignified position. Everything else is defective - only love is perfect. Justice is also defective. Justice comes to divide things between many; no unity results. This is the position of justice. But above that is the land of affection, the land of love;prema-bhumi. Love only can be the most comprehensive cause; that can accommodate or harmonize anything and everything. Love is the most generous, the most accommodating, and the most fulfilling.
1) duryodhana ko mevā tyāgo
sāga vidura ghara pāī
"Sri Krsna left the delicacies that Duryodhana offered and came to the humble house of Vidhura"
Beautiful! Duryodhana tried to bribe Sri Krsna, by offering Him with all sorts of material delicacies thinking that he could 'purchase' Lord Krsna's loyalty, but still Lord Krsna happily gave all that up to eat at the simple house of Vidhura, even though Vidhura could only offer Him simple vegetables. It is because the Lord is not attracted to our material credits (lakshmi Herself rests on His chest, so what is the need!), but He is "Bhava Grahi" He only sees mood in the heart. Because Vidhura saw Sri Krsna, not as someone to take advantage of, but as his dear friend, Lord Krsna could not help but we pulled to the house of Vidura to eat. What this is ultimately saying, is all this ritualist pooja, sacrifice and charity is nothing if one does not have love in the heart. It is only love that can attract the Lord, as it said in Bhagavatam by Kuntidevi herself: "tvam acincana gocaram". And that love must be simple and non-duplicitous like the love Vidhura for Lord Krsna.
(2) jūṭhe phala sabarī ke khāye
bahu vidhi prema lagāī
"Lord Rama ate the half eaten fruits of Shabari and in this way showed His varieties of love"
Wow this verse is even beautiful then the previous. Generally in the Vedic consideration one's 'jootha' (remnants) are considered impure to others, and thus is never shared. "Jootha" is only offered to those lower/inferior to us, just like a master may give His/Her remnants to a dog. Even in many sacrifices and poojas, if one even tastes even one of the ingredients of Prasad, it is considered impure because it has become "Jootha". However if we look here, the Supreme Lord Raghunandan, whose Lotus feet are served by all the demigods, He is Himself accepting the "jootha" fruits of Shabari Maa Why did He do so? Because Shabari saw Lord Rama as her own child, and therefore could not bare the thought of the Lord tasting a fruit which was rotten or sour. So she tasted every single one of the fruits and accepted only the sweetest for the Lord. Thus her love was infused in every single berry that she picked for Lord Raghupati.
By this action He is saying to Shabari: "O Shabari because of the selfless love you have for Me, you have bound Me in your Love. Because in your heart, you see Me like your child, I have become your child (yatha yatha mam prapadyante). O mother so as your child I am dependant on you, and therefore I will eat whatever you give Me". Lakshman Bhaiya sometimes looks at the fruits and makes funny faces, but still following His brother Rama, He eats the fruit. Anyone can approach the Lord with love, even a lower varna women like Shabari. Bhakti is not dependant on ones caste, gender, race or position in society. The Lord is hungry for Love only, and whomever approaches Him with Love he will become dependant on. That is why He says in Gita "patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati", "whether it is a leaf, a flower or even a drop of water, if it is offered with Love, I will accept it".
In Srimad Bhagavatam, there is a pastime, where Lord Krsna and His cowherd boyfriends go out to graze the cows, and at noon they all sit in a circle and bring out their lunch. For Krsna, Yashoda Maa has packed so many nice delicacies like nice rasagulas (sweet syrup balls), and Makhan (Butter-His favourite), and Kheer (rice pudding), but still Sri Krsna is secretly eyeing the laddoos that Madhumangala's (His friend) mother has made hahaah. Even when Madhumangala has not finished eating the laddoo, Lord Krsna steals that laddoo from his grasp and places the half eaten jootha in His mouth. In-fact eating the remnants of His devotees gives Him so much pleasure. In this way all the cowherd boys share their food and joke in many ways. Sometime when Brahmadev is looking from Brahmaloka at this pastime he becomes so confused by this pastime, that he himself becomes deluded by the Lord's Yogamaya, and begins to question whether Sri Krsna is actually Supreme Lord, the Master of Vaikuntha. In this way, the love of His friends forces the Lord to reciprocate in such a way. Sabse oonchi prema sagaai!
(3) prema ke basa arjuna ratha hāńkhyo
bhūla gaye ṭhakurāī
Out of pure love for Arjuna, He took the position of being his charioteer, and He forgot that He was the Lord.
Again these verses are getting more and more sublime. I think Soordasji must be seeing all these pastimes in his mind's eye and is giving us just a drop in this poetry so we can relish it. Arjuna and Krsna are best best friends. Because they are in Sakhya Bhava, Arjuna thinks himself equal to Lord Krsna (and so does the Lord) and in this way they are free to joke and interact in a way that is not possible from a master and servant. Sometime the Lord becomes so lost in this mood of friendship, that He forgets that He is God Himself and becomes a charioteer of His dear friend Arjuna. And it is lucky for the Kauravas that Lord Krsna does not directly fight in the Kurekshetra war, otherwise Kauravas would have been destroyed as soon as Lord Krsna moved His eyebrows (hehehe). It is out of His concern for Arjuna, when He sees Arjuna looking so destitute and in a moral dilemma, that the Lord speaks the message of the Bhagavatam Gita. It is out of His Love for Arjuna (and also us fallen souls) that He speaks this message of the Gita, which has become a beacon for Hindus everywhere. People often ask, "What is the reason that God acts?, Why does He come down to earth at all in various ages?". The answer to this is out of His infinite compassion for us. Look how caring the Lord is! Being the paramatma in our hearts, He understands each and every pain and misery we feel, and to stop this Janma Mrtyu cycle He descends in every age, just so that by knowing Him we may become liberated.
Please accept my humble translation, and also my commentary on what the verses mean to me
refrain: "sabse oonchi prema sagai"
"The highest relationship is that of Love"
Hmm this line is so profound, because it shows that it is only Love which can unite all. I would like to share a quote by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhara Maharaj on this, which says everyone I want to say about this: "Without love, none can be - none can hold a dignified position. Everything else is defective - only love is perfect. Justice is also defective. Justice comes to divide things between many; no unity results. This is the position of justice. But above that is the land of affection, the land of love;prema-bhumi. Love only can be the most comprehensive cause; that can accommodate or harmonize anything and everything. Love is the most generous, the most accommodating, and the most fulfilling.
1) duryodhana ko mevā tyāgo
sāga vidura ghara pāī
"Sri Krsna left the delicacies that Duryodhana offered and came to the humble house of Vidhura"
Beautiful! Duryodhana tried to bribe Sri Krsna, by offering Him with all sorts of material delicacies thinking that he could 'purchase' Lord Krsna's loyalty, but still Lord Krsna happily gave all that up to eat at the simple house of Vidhura, even though Vidhura could only offer Him simple vegetables. It is because the Lord is not attracted to our material credits (lakshmi Herself rests on His chest, so what is the need!), but He is "Bhava Grahi" He only sees mood in the heart. Because Vidhura saw Sri Krsna, not as someone to take advantage of, but as his dear friend, Lord Krsna could not help but we pulled to the house of Vidura to eat. What this is ultimately saying, is all this ritualist pooja, sacrifice and charity is nothing if one does not have love in the heart. It is only love that can attract the Lord, as it said in Bhagavatam by Kuntidevi herself: "tvam acincana gocaram". And that love must be simple and non-duplicitous like the love Vidhura for Lord Krsna.
(2) jūṭhe phala sabarī ke khāye
bahu vidhi prema lagāī
"Lord Rama ate the half eaten fruits of Shabari and in this way showed His varieties of love"
Wow this verse is even beautiful then the previous. Generally in the Vedic consideration one's 'jootha' (remnants) are considered impure to others, and thus is never shared. "Jootha" is only offered to those lower/inferior to us, just like a master may give His/Her remnants to a dog. Even in many sacrifices and poojas, if one even tastes even one of the ingredients of Prasad, it is considered impure because it has become "Jootha". However if we look here, the Supreme Lord Raghunandan, whose Lotus feet are served by all the demigods, He is Himself accepting the "jootha" fruits of Shabari Maa Why did He do so? Because Shabari saw Lord Rama as her own child, and therefore could not bare the thought of the Lord tasting a fruit which was rotten or sour. So she tasted every single one of the fruits and accepted only the sweetest for the Lord. Thus her love was infused in every single berry that she picked for Lord Raghupati.
By this action He is saying to Shabari: "O Shabari because of the selfless love you have for Me, you have bound Me in your Love. Because in your heart, you see Me like your child, I have become your child (yatha yatha mam prapadyante). O mother so as your child I am dependant on you, and therefore I will eat whatever you give Me". Lakshman Bhaiya sometimes looks at the fruits and makes funny faces, but still following His brother Rama, He eats the fruit. Anyone can approach the Lord with love, even a lower varna women like Shabari. Bhakti is not dependant on ones caste, gender, race or position in society. The Lord is hungry for Love only, and whomever approaches Him with Love he will become dependant on. That is why He says in Gita "patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati", "whether it is a leaf, a flower or even a drop of water, if it is offered with Love, I will accept it".
In Srimad Bhagavatam, there is a pastime, where Lord Krsna and His cowherd boyfriends go out to graze the cows, and at noon they all sit in a circle and bring out their lunch. For Krsna, Yashoda Maa has packed so many nice delicacies like nice rasagulas (sweet syrup balls), and Makhan (Butter-His favourite), and Kheer (rice pudding), but still Sri Krsna is secretly eyeing the laddoos that Madhumangala's (His friend) mother has made hahaah. Even when Madhumangala has not finished eating the laddoo, Lord Krsna steals that laddoo from his grasp and places the half eaten jootha in His mouth. In-fact eating the remnants of His devotees gives Him so much pleasure. In this way all the cowherd boys share their food and joke in many ways. Sometime when Brahmadev is looking from Brahmaloka at this pastime he becomes so confused by this pastime, that he himself becomes deluded by the Lord's Yogamaya, and begins to question whether Sri Krsna is actually Supreme Lord, the Master of Vaikuntha. In this way, the love of His friends forces the Lord to reciprocate in such a way. Sabse oonchi prema sagaai!
(3) prema ke basa arjuna ratha hāńkhyo
bhūla gaye ṭhakurāī
Out of pure love for Arjuna, He took the position of being his charioteer, and He forgot that He was the Lord.
Again these verses are getting more and more sublime. I think Soordasji must be seeing all these pastimes in his mind's eye and is giving us just a drop in this poetry so we can relish it. Arjuna and Krsna are best best friends. Because they are in Sakhya Bhava, Arjuna thinks himself equal to Lord Krsna (and so does the Lord) and in this way they are free to joke and interact in a way that is not possible from a master and servant. Sometime the Lord becomes so lost in this mood of friendship, that He forgets that He is God Himself and becomes a charioteer of His dear friend Arjuna. And it is lucky for the Kauravas that Lord Krsna does not directly fight in the Kurekshetra war, otherwise Kauravas would have been destroyed as soon as Lord Krsna moved His eyebrows (hehehe). It is out of His concern for Arjuna, when He sees Arjuna looking so destitute and in a moral dilemma, that the Lord speaks the message of the Bhagavatam Gita. It is out of His Love for Arjuna (and also us fallen souls) that He speaks this message of the Gita, which has become a beacon for Hindus everywhere. People often ask, "What is the reason that God acts?, Why does He come down to earth at all in various ages?". The answer to this is out of His infinite compassion for us. Look how caring the Lord is! Being the paramatma in our hearts, He understands each and every pain and misery we feel, and to stop this Janma Mrtyu cycle He descends in every age, just so that by knowing Him we may become liberated.
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निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Part 2
(4) aisi prīti baḍhī vṛndāvana
gopina nāca nacāī
"Such was His love in Vrndavana, that He Himself danced with the Gopis."
*drumroll* and we finally reach the climax of the Lord's Love, which is found in the intense love between Him and the Gopis! The love of the Gopis is so selfless that I cannot even begin to describe a particle of its glories. It is said that that all the Lord's servants, there is no-one who has just love for the Lord like Hanumanji. But higher than Hanuman in bhakti is Arjuna because Arjuna views the Lord as a friend (sakhya), equal to him. Yet higher than Arjuna is Uddhavji, who is proclaimed in Bhagavatam as "mukhyaṁ kṛṣṇa-parigrahe" or "the chief among the devotees". In fact, Uddhava is so dear to Sri Krsna that He Himself says in the Uddhava Gita (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.15):
na tathā me priyatama
ātma-yonir na śaṅkaraḥ
na ca saṅkarṣaṇo na śrīr
naivātmā ca yathā bhavān
"My dear Uddhava, neither Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa, the goddess of fortune (Sri devi) nor indeed My own self are as dear to Me as you are"
Here the Lord is placing Uddhava at an even higher position than Brahma, Siva, Sankarsana, Lakshmi Devi and even Himself! Such is the love that Sri Krsna has for Uddhava. But when Uddhava came to Vrndavana, He realised the intense Love the the Gopis had for Sri Krsna, and in his ecstasy, Uddhava exclaims the following (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.47.61):
asa maho charana-renu-jusam aham syam
vrndavane kim api gulma-latausadhinam
ya dustyajam sva-janam arya-patham cha hitva
bhejur mukunda-padavim srutibhir vimrgyam
"The Gopis of Vrindavan have given up the association of their husbands, sons and other family members, who are very difficult to renounce, and they have sacrificed even their religious principles to take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, which are sought after even by the Vedas. O! Grant me the fortune to be born as a blade of grass in Vrindavan, so that I may take the dust of those great souls upon my head."
Even Uddhav ji, is begging to be born as a a blade of grass in Vraja, so that He can get just the footdust of the Gopis. That is the true position of the Gopis. They are more dear to Lord Hari than Brahma, Shambhu, Lakshmi and even His own self! Their Love for Sri Krsna is so selfless. Every action they do is for Krsna's pleasure. That is the ultimate position that we Gaudiyas strive for; we want to be the footdust of the Gopis.
One must be careful not to confuse the mundane lust (Kama) of the material world, with the spiritual love (Prema) that the Gopis had for Sri Krsna. The definition of these two terms is given in Shastra:
"ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā--tāre bali 'kāma'
kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma"
"The desire to gratify one's own senses is kāma [lust], but the desire to please the senses of Lord Kṛṣṇa is prema [love]."
Every bodily action we do in this world is lust, because it is for the pleasure of the mundane senses, but Prema is the natural function of the souls. It has no cause, and is naturally inherent in all jivas.This Prema is described by Srila Rupa Goswami as "Jnana karmadi anavrtam", i.e "Prema is not covered with Jnana (desire for Kaivalya Mukti) or Karma (desire for bodily happiness)". It is this Prema that is manifest fully in the divine heart of the Gopi's of Vrndavana. All Glories to the Gopis!
(5) sūra krūra is lāyaka nāhī
kaha lag karau baḍāī
"This wretched Soordas is not worthy of this love, so how can I glorify it completely?"
Here Soordas ji is revealing his extreme humility and Vaishnav character. Even though soordas ji is seeing all these pastimes, still He is remaining so so humble, giving all the glory to the Lord. It should be understood that one who is the most humble is actually the most advanced. The more one progresses in bhakti, the more one realises the need for the Lord's Mercy and hence Humlity manifests in that soul. One who has Krsna Prema will never admit it, they will always consider themselves lowest of the low. This is Lord Chaitanyadev's instruction to all souls, to be "trnad api sunicena" or "humbler than a blade of grass". A blade of grass allows everyone to step over them, yet still always rises up! So we should try and cultivate this humility, because this humility attracts Lord Hari. Lord Hari is the greatest, the highest positive, and when we think ourselves as the lowest, the largest negative, then like a electrical charge (negative attracts positive) Lord Hari will be attracted to us. Actually bodily pride is the source of most of the wars and problems in this material world. Excessive pride upon distinctions (i.e pride based upon ones race, gender, nationality, religion etc) alienates and separates others from differing groups. This leads to a feeling of apparent superiority which may further deteriorate into hatred and then finally violence. We only commit violence because we think it is justified (the other party deserve it), and it is false pride that is the root cause for this. However if one has the pride "I am the jiva, and so is everyone" then he becomes a pandit (as said in gita: pandit sama darshana). This is true pride, because it pertains to the eternal soul, not the decaying body. When one is humble, one will never actively judge anyone else. One will respect everyone and stay peaceful on ones spiritual path. That is the message Soordasji is teaching here
Sabse Oonchi Prema Sagaai!
(4) aisi prīti baḍhī vṛndāvana
gopina nāca nacāī
"Such was His love in Vrndavana, that He Himself danced with the Gopis."
*drumroll* and we finally reach the climax of the Lord's Love, which is found in the intense love between Him and the Gopis! The love of the Gopis is so selfless that I cannot even begin to describe a particle of its glories. It is said that that all the Lord's servants, there is no-one who has just love for the Lord like Hanumanji. But higher than Hanuman in bhakti is Arjuna because Arjuna views the Lord as a friend (sakhya), equal to him. Yet higher than Arjuna is Uddhavji, who is proclaimed in Bhagavatam as "mukhyaṁ kṛṣṇa-parigrahe" or "the chief among the devotees". In fact, Uddhava is so dear to Sri Krsna that He Himself says in the Uddhava Gita (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.15):
na tathā me priyatama
ātma-yonir na śaṅkaraḥ
na ca saṅkarṣaṇo na śrīr
naivātmā ca yathā bhavān
"My dear Uddhava, neither Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa, the goddess of fortune (Sri devi) nor indeed My own self are as dear to Me as you are"
Here the Lord is placing Uddhava at an even higher position than Brahma, Siva, Sankarsana, Lakshmi Devi and even Himself! Such is the love that Sri Krsna has for Uddhava. But when Uddhava came to Vrndavana, He realised the intense Love the the Gopis had for Sri Krsna, and in his ecstasy, Uddhava exclaims the following (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.47.61):
asa maho charana-renu-jusam aham syam
vrndavane kim api gulma-latausadhinam
ya dustyajam sva-janam arya-patham cha hitva
bhejur mukunda-padavim srutibhir vimrgyam
"The Gopis of Vrindavan have given up the association of their husbands, sons and other family members, who are very difficult to renounce, and they have sacrificed even their religious principles to take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, which are sought after even by the Vedas. O! Grant me the fortune to be born as a blade of grass in Vrindavan, so that I may take the dust of those great souls upon my head."
Even Uddhav ji, is begging to be born as a a blade of grass in Vraja, so that He can get just the footdust of the Gopis. That is the true position of the Gopis. They are more dear to Lord Hari than Brahma, Shambhu, Lakshmi and even His own self! Their Love for Sri Krsna is so selfless. Every action they do is for Krsna's pleasure. That is the ultimate position that we Gaudiyas strive for; we want to be the footdust of the Gopis.
One must be careful not to confuse the mundane lust (Kama) of the material world, with the spiritual love (Prema) that the Gopis had for Sri Krsna. The definition of these two terms is given in Shastra:
"ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā--tāre bali 'kāma'
kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma"
"The desire to gratify one's own senses is kāma [lust], but the desire to please the senses of Lord Kṛṣṇa is prema [love]."
Every bodily action we do in this world is lust, because it is for the pleasure of the mundane senses, but Prema is the natural function of the souls. It has no cause, and is naturally inherent in all jivas.This Prema is described by Srila Rupa Goswami as "Jnana karmadi anavrtam", i.e "Prema is not covered with Jnana (desire for Kaivalya Mukti) or Karma (desire for bodily happiness)". It is this Prema that is manifest fully in the divine heart of the Gopi's of Vrndavana. All Glories to the Gopis!
(5) sūra krūra is lāyaka nāhī
kaha lag karau baḍāī
"This wretched Soordas is not worthy of this love, so how can I glorify it completely?"
Here Soordas ji is revealing his extreme humility and Vaishnav character. Even though soordas ji is seeing all these pastimes, still He is remaining so so humble, giving all the glory to the Lord. It should be understood that one who is the most humble is actually the most advanced. The more one progresses in bhakti, the more one realises the need for the Lord's Mercy and hence Humlity manifests in that soul. One who has Krsna Prema will never admit it, they will always consider themselves lowest of the low. This is Lord Chaitanyadev's instruction to all souls, to be "trnad api sunicena" or "humbler than a blade of grass". A blade of grass allows everyone to step over them, yet still always rises up! So we should try and cultivate this humility, because this humility attracts Lord Hari. Lord Hari is the greatest, the highest positive, and when we think ourselves as the lowest, the largest negative, then like a electrical charge (negative attracts positive) Lord Hari will be attracted to us. Actually bodily pride is the source of most of the wars and problems in this material world. Excessive pride upon distinctions (i.e pride based upon ones race, gender, nationality, religion etc) alienates and separates others from differing groups. This leads to a feeling of apparent superiority which may further deteriorate into hatred and then finally violence. We only commit violence because we think it is justified (the other party deserve it), and it is false pride that is the root cause for this. However if one has the pride "I am the jiva, and so is everyone" then he becomes a pandit (as said in gita: pandit sama darshana). This is true pride, because it pertains to the eternal soul, not the decaying body. When one is humble, one will never actively judge anyone else. One will respect everyone and stay peaceful on ones spiritual path. That is the message Soordasji is teaching here
Sabse Oonchi Prema Sagaai!
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Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Can you tell me in your devotion to God why the Bhagavad Gita is taken as completely dictated by Him even though Chaitanya focused on acintya bhed abheda tatwa as far as I understand it and never brought the Gita in to support his devotion?
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Like all Vaishnav schools, Lord Chaitanya's acintya bhedabheda philosophy accepts the Vedas (and its respective branches) as the word of God. Gita is one of these texts. Scripture (Sabda pranam) is the proof that is used to support acintya bhedabheda. Of all the scriptures however, we accept Srimad Bhagavatam as the ultimate conclusion, being the fully ripened fruit of the Vedic tree (nigama kalpa taror amritam phalam). In the discussion of Vedanta between Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya and Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu; Lord Chaitanya gives the following instructions to Sarvabhauma:
pramāṇera madhye śruti pramāṇa--pradhāna
śruti ye mukhyārtha kahe, sei se pramāṇa
"Of all standards of proof, scripture holds the ultimate authority. It is only the primary meaning of sruti which forms this proof"
jīvera asthi-viṣṭhā dui--śaṅkha-gomaya
śruti-vākye sei dui mahā-pavitra haya
"Conchshells and cow dung are nothing but the bones and the stool of some living entities, but according to the Vedic version they are both considered very pure"
svataḥ-pramāṇa veda satya yei kaya
'lakṣaṇā' karile svataḥ-prāmāṇya-hāni haya
"The Vedic statements are self-evident. Whatever is stated there must be accepted. If we interpret according to our own imagination, the authority of the Vedas is immediately lost."
yā yā śrutir jalpati nirviśeṣaṁ
sā sābhidhatte sa-viśeṣam eva
vicāra-yoge sati hanta tāsāṁ
prāyo balīyaḥ sa-viśeṣam eva"
"Whatever Vedic mantras describe the Absolute Truth impersonally only prove in the end that the Absolute Truth is a person. The Supreme Lord is understood in two features-impersonal and personal. If one considers the Supreme Personality of Godhead in both features, he can actually understand the Absolute Truth. He knows that the personal understanding is stronger because we see that everything is full of variety. No one can see anything that is not full of variety."
In the remainder of the chapter, the Lord very beautiful elaborates on the philosophy of Acintya Bhedabheda.
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Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Can you give me the acintya bhed abheda philosophy in 50-100 words, in simple English?
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Haha okay I shall try and condense it down to 100 (ish) words.
Acintya Bhedabheda
The soul is both one and different from the absolute truth Sri Krsna. Just like sparks coming from a fire can be called qualitatively one, yet quantitatively different for its source; similarly the soul is a minute particle of the effulgence of Sri Krsna. The fundamental function of the soul , is that it is the servant of Krsna, and its sole religion (and perfection) lies in the attainment of Krsna Prema (love for Krishna). The only way to obtain this is to perform the chanting and singing of the Holy Name of Sri Krsna which is non-different from Krishna Himself. This was preached by Sri Krsna Himself, in the form of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu This is summarized in the following shloka:
aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam
ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena va kalpita
srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan
sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradarah na parah
"Bhagavan who is the son of Nanda (Krsna) must be worshiped alongside His abode and associates. The ideal form of worship was done by the Gopis. Srimad Bhagavatam is the perfect proof, and Prema is the highest attainment. This is the opinion of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, there is no Truth higher than this"
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I think you repeated this like a 10 times, same content...I think tattvapravah would be good enough to explain this.
anyway are you saying soul is a part of Krushna ? both are same entity ? In which sense they are one and which sense they are different ? care to explain ?
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
The reason is literally in my post (perhaps why I have to repeat it 10 times haaha). Like a spark from a flame, or the rays of the sun, the jiva is a tiny fragment of the Lord's Brahmajyoti. It can never be God (in quantity) though coming from Him (hence why Jivas are Sat Cid Ananda). Hence acintya bhedabheda (inconceivable oneness and difference)
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Acintya_Ash
Bhakta
Dear Nitai!
A Query, Are all jivas same or different? What differentiates jivas?
Spark and flame are not different, fundamentally. Spark can become an Inferno so can flame.
A Query, Are all jivas same or different? What differentiates jivas?
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Hmmm Then it no-longer remains a spark does it? The simile was used in the context of a spark only, to show the oneness and difference in that instance. That is why the example of sun and its rays were also used later. I am not sure about sameness of the jivas, I'm sorry. When Mahavisnu glances, then the Brahmajyoti fragments to form jivas, who are minuscule in size (not sure if different sizes). However, the swarupa within each jiva is unique to the Lord's lila.
Acintya_Ash
Bhakta
The problem is it never was a spark to begin with, there's just fire everywhere. It only imagined itself to be a spark and then came up with philosophies to justify its imaginations.
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
The problem is it never was a spark to begin with, there's just fire everywhere. It only imagined itself to be a spark and then came up with philosophies to justify its imaginations.
Hahahaha, very nice. In the words of Abba "There's a fire within my soul". Hopefully there is fire (even if it is just is a spark) of love for Sri Krsna in mine .
Acintya_Ash
Bhakta
I think it is important here to note the use of the word quantity. Would it then be correct to say that the jiva is of the same QUALITY as Shri Krishna? Like a drop of water is made of exactly the same atoms and bonds adds the ocean but itself can never BE an ocean?
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Yes you are entirely correct. Sri Krsna is Sat-Cid-Ananda (eternal, concious, blissful), and because Jivas are of the same quality as Sri Krsna, they also are Sat-Cid-Ananda (to a lesser degree).
There will always be separate drops, the ocean is not still, it is always in motion. But these drops cast up by the waves and thinking to themselves that they are separate and apart from everything will always return to the ocean.
shivsomashekhar
Well-Known Member
You and I are different Aup. There is no oneness. You do agree, because you respond to questions and therefore you acknowledge that the person answering is different from the person questioning.
We are real and the differences between us are real and that will not change in future. This is why Advaita logic is flawed. It is flawed because the so-called alternate reality where everything is one cannot exist. It cannot exist because there is no individual to perceive its existence. As simple as that