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Featured 'Fully God and fully man'....or, 'God & man'? Is there a difference?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, May 12, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Here is our list of contradictions that slowly adding to... Yet those are sufficient to make a case of its blatant mistakes.
    El as the phrase is using is the Source of all reality, and can appear in the form of Elohim (Arch Angels)...

    If the God Most High (CPU) left the Core, reality will cease to exist.
    Yeshua Elohim being the son of the God Most High isn't an issue (Luke 1:32), it is people saying that a son of man is equal with the CPU.
    Psalms 21:7 For the king trusts in the Lord, and through the loving kindness of the Most High, he shall not be moved.

    So David our king as a son of man trusted in the Lord, who through the God Most High is blessed.

    Yeshua who was YHVH, told us to trust in the God Most High... There is a distinct hierarchy, and that line being crossed is idolatry.
    H3444 + H1961 = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

    These are verses got saved to show a progression of a concept, if YHVH appears as a man of war, than it is also possible within them sentence structures, to say YHVH Elohim shall become Yeshua Elohim physically as a man.

    Especially when we have these other verses along side it:

    H3444 + H7200 = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

    As these say we've physically seen the Salvation of our Lord appearing, and in Isaiah 52:14 it literally says he will take the form of a son of man.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
    .
     
    #21 wizanda, May 13, 2018
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    'Fully God and fully man'....or, 'God & man'? Is there a difference?

    Did Jesus claim that he was a fully God and a fully man? If yes, please quote from him.
    Regards
     
  3. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    You're adding your own ideas, Wizanda. None of those verses say anything about God literally being a physical being.

    But, I understand your main point. For Moses/Exodus to call God a man at all, is what misleads.
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Would not say the God Most High (CPU) can be a physical being...

    Yet YHVH the Elohim (Arch Angel) can, and said he will as Yeshua in the scriptures before it was ever thought about.
    Moses said YHVH Elohim can be as a man of war; not God Almighty (El Shaddai).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  5. Ponder This

    Ponder This Active Member

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    I don't think there is any reason to use the word 'fully' unless there exists some point upon which people quibble. If I said a person was 'cat and man', then I could take that to mean that he was 'part cat and part man'. So applying the adjective 'fully' as in 'fully cat and fully man' suggests that he is in every necessary respect a cat and in every necessary respect a man.

    I leave the importance of such a distinction in Jesus for others to elucidate (if they are able).
     
  6. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    I see. Your premise is rooted in another mistake:

    Joshua 22:22
    El Elohim -- YHVH, El Elohim -- YHVH, He is knowing, and Israel, he doth know, if in rebellion, and if in trespass against YHVH (Thou dost not save us this day!)

    Psalms 57:2
    I call to Elyon Elohim, to El [who] is perfecting for me.

    2 Samuel 22:14
    Thunder from the heavens doth YHVH, and Elyon giveth forth His voice.

    Psalms 7:17
    I thank YHVH, According to His righteousness, And praise the name of YHVH Elyon!
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    There are two specific items in the sentence structure, as it uses 'and' in the middle...

    Also see this separation in these verses:

    2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahweh thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1
    Psalms 47:2 For Yahweh Most High is awesome. He is a great King over all the earth.

    Psalms 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.

    Psalms 97:9 For you, Yahweh, are most high above all the earth. You are exalted far above all gods.

    When we look at David's usages, YHVH/Yeshua is King over the Earth, 'and' other Arch Angels (Elohim/Elders)

    El Elyon is God of Heaven...

    Thus there being the Source (CPU), and then Arch Angels...

    Revelations says there are 24 Elders, 'and' One Lamb who is their Leader, all with Crowns, 'and' then God Almighty who sits on the Throne.
    Everything stems from the CPU (El Elyon, God Almighty), and thus it is all One anyways, the idea of dividing it, is just to be logical with what the text presents in places.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Confusing and likely self defeating. Unlike much more logically consistent concepts like "fully God and fully woman".

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Sorry, I could not understand. Please elaborate one's post for us.
    Regards
     
  10. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Isn't that obvious?

    Fully God and fully woman, makes more sense than fully God and fully man. Don't you think so?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  11. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Let me check this out a bit and see what I response I have.
    Since you're using the analogy of a computer; then I think the manifestation of God in human form is easier to explain. :thumbsup: So if God were hypothetically a CPU and wanted to manifest Himself into this reality that would be as easy as it is for you to log in an account on a video game. Then you have your video game character which is an extension of your own mind and will. Except in a virtual world. See what I'm saying?

    Obviously in reality it's quite a bit more complex than that. But that's the analogy. God can manifest Himself and did so in Jesus Christ. God is omnipresent so He did not cease to be God just because He was manifest in the flesh. Just like He did not cease to be God every other time there was a manifestation of God. Such as when Abraham met God and 2 angels. (Genesis 18) And He revealed Himself to the elders of Israel in Exodus 24:10. These are manifestations of God. He is omnipresent, invisible. And if He appeared in all His unveiled glory then He would destroy humans because of His brightness. But He does reveal Himself in different forms as revelations of His nature. Jesus was indwelt with the Fullness of the Divine Nature. (Colossians 2:8-9) This means that in Jesus the Son; God reveals All His nature. This is who God is; Jesus.

    It is the scripture itself that calls Jesus equal with God. (see Philippians 2:6)

    Psalm 21 is really about Yeshua and it is because of idolatry that Yeshua was manifest in the world. Remember Jesus is in the exact imprint of God's image. God sent His true image into the world so we would not worship images we made up from our own thoughts or opinions on the Divine nature. Jesus shows us the truth and in this we have a true image of the invisible God. In other words Jesus is not just a man but the most obvious and tangible revelation(revealing) of God ever given to mankind so far. The revealing of God that will be greater is when people see Him as He is like it says in 1 John 3:2.

    Jesus showed us the true care and love of God calling Himself the good(or beautiful) Shepherd. There is no other. He is the One who gives His Life for the Sheep and He leaves the 99 for 1 lost sheep.
     
  12. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they are different. No more that I am fully dad, brother and husband.
     
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Thanks or elaborating one's point.
    I believe both concepts "Fully God and fully woman" as also "fully God and fully man" are equally wrong concepts. Jesus did not claim to be "fully God and fully man", he never said any such thing.
    Others are welcome to differ with me with reason and arguments, if any.
    Regards
     
  14. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    You are welcome

    Obviously. Especially the latter.

    I am not sure whether the claim is what He said or what He was. It is logically admissible to be X without claiming to be X.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  15. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    A living human person is made up of a physical body and a non-physical spirit. Jesus was a living human. The difference is that in other humans the spirit is a human spirit. In Jesus the spirit was the spirit of God. Jesus was 100% human in his physical body and 100% God in his spirit. Fully man (physically) and fully God (spiritually). Very simple but few people see it.
     
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  16. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Interesting..

    Exodus 6:3
    And I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as El Shaddai; as to My name YHVH, I have not been known to them.


    Here, El Shaddai clearly says that His name is YHVH.
     
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I think the Carpenter made some comment.....to show the difference

    which is greater?....the Son?....or the Father?
     
  18. idav

    idav Being
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    No beIng 100% man and 100% god is nonsensical if god and man are different species.

    It does make a little more sense in a pantheist theology though but even when saying everything is God it’s really pushing it to call anything fully God.
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    revelation is god as man, or the man-ifestation of God fully realized and omnipresent based on the name from exodus 3:14.

    Also, the name of the Creator, the Created, and the Creating; when immersion in the name takes place.
     
  20. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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