Note: Considering the thread was originally directed at Jews until it was decided to open it to all of RF, it's no wonder that you believe differently.I don’t think so. Do you have some clear example?
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Note: Considering the thread was originally directed at Jews until it was decided to open it to all of RF, it's no wonder that you believe differently.I don’t think so. Do you have some clear example?
Read Isaiah 6-8. Then check out who the name Immanuel was referring to and its fulfillment was. Also consider who is considered the mother of Immanuel in that context.I don’t think so. Do you have some clear example?
Hi there,
As a former Christian, having read the Old Testament and New Testament to completion and numerous books multiple times, it has always occurred to me that a few Old Testament scriptures that the New Testament says was fulfilled by Jesus or in some other way, seem to have been taken out of context.
Sometimes the writers would quote a single verse from a passage to prove a point and then when going back I would find that the context seemed very different.
In some cases I have found that this was a misunderstanding of the context on my part.
Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?
@Harel13
Sure do!
And the gospels got heavily 'tweeked' by some early ardent Christians.
It takes a whole lot of unraveling, but in my researches I discovered that Jesus and the Baptist were wonderful guys who objected strongly to the Temple money-go-round, corruption, and a mostly hypocritical priesthood. No more than that.
Hi.........I do think that they were guys trying to reform Judaism at the very least.
Read Isaiah 6-8. Then check out who the name Immanuel was referring to and its fulfillment was. Also consider who is considered the mother of Immanuel in that context.
Paul disagrees with the popular Jewish view that while the merit of the patriarchs has ended, the covenant of the patriarchs has not. No matter how badly the Jewish people act, they will always remain God's people.
"...how much the more so for an entire people that has merit and the covenant of the ancestors that you have come to uproot!" (Bamidbar Rabbah 20:15)
And Shmuel said: The letter tav is the first letter of the word tama, ceased, indicating that the merit of the Patriarchs has ceased and will not help the wicked. (Shabbat 55a)
Tosfot there: "Says Rabbeinu Tam that the merit of the Patriarchs has ceased but the covenant of the Patriarchs has not ceased."
I would like to hear, who do you think the Immanuel is in those? I personally have to think the scriptures more, because it seems there is two meanings to it.
It is absolutely scandalous the way verses of the Tanakh are taken out of context, mistranslated, and even made up outright.Hi there,
As a former Christian, having read the Old Testament and New Testament to completion and numerous books multiple times, it has always occurred to me that a few Old Testament scriptures that the New Testament says was fulfilled by Jesus or in some other way, seem to have been taken out of context.
Sometimes the writers would quote a single verse from a passage to prove a point and then when going back I would find that the context seemed very different.
In some cases I have found that this was a misunderstanding of the context on my part.
Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?
@Harel13
It is absolutely scandalous the way verses of the Tanakh are taken out of context, mistranslated, and even made up outright.
It is absolutely scandalous the way verses of the Tanakh are taken out of context, mistranslated, and even made up outright.
In his own self-conception, Paul’s regarded himself as an eschatological figure carrying out Israel’s prophesised mission (in the Messianic Age) of converting all humankind to the One God worshiped among the Jewish people, away from idols and paganism. Namely, the vision outlined by Isaiah.
Until some where along the way the false belief of a 'Christian' God replacing the God of Israel.
Hi there,
As a former Christian, having read the Old Testament and New Testament to completion and numerous books multiple times, it has always occurred to me that a few Old Testament scriptures that the New Testament says was fulfilled by Jesus or in some other way, seem to have been taken out of context.
Sometimes the writers would quote a single verse from a passage to prove a point and then when going back I would find that the context seemed very different.
In some cases I have found that this was a misunderstanding of the context on my part.
Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?
@Harel13
Oh, definitely. I know your subject is the Tanach, but Christians will also quote-mine out of other Jewish texts.
Yeah, but it's no biggie. It's a different religion. When Christians claim that it's the same religion and we Jews are just doing it wrong... that's where quotes and context become important to me.
Otherwise, c'est la vie.
No kidding?!I believe that is just a biased view based on having a different religion.
...Chapter 8, the following, shows the fulfillment of this prophecy. The young woman isn't a virgin, because she is a prophetess, Isaiah's wife (verse 3). She gives birth to Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz , who is Immanuel in this context.