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Fulfillment of Prophecy in the New Testament

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Hi there,

As a former Christian, having read the Old Testament and New Testament to completion and numerous books multiple times, it has always occurred to me that a few Old Testament scriptures that the New Testament says was fulfilled by Jesus or in some other way, seem to have been taken out of context.

Sometimes the writers would quote a single verse from a passage to prove a point and then when going back I would find that the context seemed very different.

In some cases I have found that this was a misunderstanding of the context on my part.

Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?

@Harel13
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, definitely. I know your subject is the Tanach, but Christians will also quote-mine out of other Jewish texts.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Oh, definitely. I know your subject is the Tanach, but Christians will also quote-mine out of other Jewish texts.

Do you have examples?

I am specifically looking for examples of these verses to verify myself. And I am not surprised that many Christians take verses of Jewish texts out of context.

My question is mainly about the Tanach because my friend (a Christian) and I have always been interested in Judaism's interpretation of scriptures because we appreciate jewish commentary as you guys focus a lot on context.

It seems like one cannot understand the Bible without actually taking into account the Jewish understanding of the OT and we want to know about "the mysterious older relative" called Judaism.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?
Yeah, but it's no biggie. It's a different religion. When Christians claim that it's the same religion and we Jews are just doing it wrong... that's where quotes and context become important to me.

Otherwise, c'est la vie.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Rival's the one who usually slam dunks these questions, tbh.
Yeah, although now I've realized that the title says Jews-only...



See, this is exactly why I set up that Resources page, so we'd be able to easily get all the lists. But I still don't have a list for this subject.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Yeah, but it's no biggie. It's a different religion. When Christians claim that it's the same religion and we Jews are just doing it wrong... that's where quotes and context become important to me.

Otherwise, c'est la vie.

I have always viewed Christianity as a jewish text funnily enough.

I think that this might be where my research leads, whether Christianity is the actual successor to Judaism.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Yeah, although now I've realized that the title says Jews-only...



See, this is exactly why I set up that Resources page, so we'd be able to easily get all the lists. But I still don't have a list for this subject.

If @Rival view supports the Jewish viewpoint of the topic then it is fine if they comment.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Rival will be here once she's stopped crying into Tumah's tallis. Give her a few minutes.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Resources page?
RF has some private groups, including a private Jewish group. A couple of weeks ago, after an annoying "discussion" with one of the RFers here who presented a totally quote-mined list of rabbis seemingly claiming that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah and after refuting just about the entire list, I decided to set up a resources thread over there for quick-access to refutations of Jewish misconceptions. As you correctly stated, it's hard collecting all the info over and over again.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
RF has some private groups, including a private Jewish group. A couple of weeks ago, after an annoying "discussion" with one of the RFers here who presented a totally quote-mined list of rabbis seemingly claiming that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah and after refuting just about the entire list, I decided to set up a resources thread over there for quick-access to refutations of Jewish misconceptions. As you correctly stated, it's hard collecting all the info over and over again.

I have seen you post quite a few explanations of questions on RF over the past week. Is that related?

Isaiah 53 would be a good chapter to start with. At the moment I am on the side of the Christians on that chapter, because the verses seem to describe Jesus very well. The only refutation I can think of is that the Christians actually just copied that scripture to compose a story about Jesus in which cases Jesus's life course and death would be fiction.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I have seen you post quite a few explanations of questions on RF over the past week. Is that related?
That's sort of the result of discussions we've had on the private group about such incidents.
Isaiah 53 would be a good chapter to start with. At the moment I am on the side of the Christians on that chapter, because the verses seem to describe Jesus very well. The only refutation I can think of is that the Christians actually just copied that scripture to compose a story about Jesus in which cases Jesus's life course and death would be fiction.
Actually, I won't lie, and I'll say that in the case of ch. 53, Christianity have a bit of a case. But one important idea to remember is that Christians waited until decades after Jesus' supposed death and then went back and stuffed his life into the Tanach, while the Jewish views on the matter were always - before and after - different.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I am going through these so I will be a while. I have nothing better to do today so I'm on with this now.
 
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