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Featured Fulfillment of Prophecy in the New Testament

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Israel Khan, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Hi there,

    As a former Christian, having read the Old Testament and New Testament to completion and numerous books multiple times, it has always occurred to me that a few Old Testament scriptures that the New Testament says was fulfilled by Jesus or in some other way, seem to have been taken out of context.

    Sometimes the writers would quote a single verse from a passage to prove a point and then when going back I would find that the context seemed very different.

    In some cases I have found that this was a misunderstanding of the context on my part.

    Would you guys say that the NT writers definitely take certain quotes out of context from the OT?

    @Harel13
     
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  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Oh, definitely. I know your subject is the Tanach, but Christians will also quote-mine out of other Jewish texts.
     
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  3. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Do you have examples?

    I am specifically looking for examples of these verses to verify myself. And I am not surprised that many Christians take verses of Jewish texts out of context.

    My question is mainly about the Tanach because my friend (a Christian) and I have always been interested in Judaism's interpretation of scriptures because we appreciate jewish commentary as you guys focus a lot on context.

    It seems like one cannot understand the Bible without actually taking into account the Jewish understanding of the OT and we want to know about "the mysterious older relative" called Judaism.
     
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  4. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    I am eager to make this discussion as deep as possible taking into account my ignorance.
     
  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    I could scrounge up some, but not right now. Hopefully later today.
     
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  6. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Yeah, but it's no biggie. It's a different religion. When Christians claim that it's the same religion and we Jews are just doing it wrong... that's where quotes and context become important to me.

    Otherwise, c'est la vie.
     
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  8. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Rival's the one who usually slam dunks these questions, tbh.
     
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  9. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Yeah, although now I've realized that the title says Jews-only...



    See, this is exactly why I set up that Resources page, so we'd be able to easily get all the lists. But I still don't have a list for this subject.
     
  10. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    That is fine. Take your time. I imagine it will take a long time to go through stuff myself.
     
  11. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    I have always viewed Christianity as a jewish text funnily enough.

    I think that this might be where my research leads, whether Christianity is the actual successor to Judaism.
     
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  12. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Resources page?
     
  13. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    If @Rival view supports the Jewish viewpoint of the topic then it is fine if they comment.
     
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  14. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Rival will be here once she's stopped crying into Tumah's tallis. Give her a few minutes.
     
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  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    RF has some private groups, including a private Jewish group. A couple of weeks ago, after an annoying "discussion" with one of the RFers here who presented a totally quote-mined list of rabbis seemingly claiming that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah and after refuting just about the entire list, I decided to set up a resources thread over there for quick-access to refutations of Jewish misconceptions. As you correctly stated, it's hard collecting all the info over and over again.
     
  16. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Why, is he back?
     
  17. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    No :'(

    But I figure if I steal his tallit he will have to reclaim it.
     
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  18. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    I have seen you post quite a few explanations of questions on RF over the past week. Is that related?

    Isaiah 53 would be a good chapter to start with. At the moment I am on the side of the Christians on that chapter, because the verses seem to describe Jesus very well. The only refutation I can think of is that the Christians actually just copied that scripture to compose a story about Jesus in which cases Jesus's life course and death would be fiction.
     
  19. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    That's sort of the result of discussions we've had on the private group about such incidents.
    Actually, I won't lie, and I'll say that in the case of ch. 53, Christianity have a bit of a case. But one important idea to remember is that Christians waited until decades after Jesus' supposed death and then went back and stuffed his life into the Tanach, while the Jewish views on the matter were always - before and after - different.
     
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  20. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    I am going through these so I will be a while. I have nothing better to do today so I'm on with this now.
     
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