Fulfillment of Prophecy in the New Testament

[Samael_Khan]

The best bit is where Paul's preaching is so long and boring Eutychus falls asleep and falls out of a window.

7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
8 There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together.
9 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, "Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him."
11 Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till daybreak, he departed.
12 And they brought the young man in alive, and they were not a little comforted.

This story is SO funny and so relatable.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I wonder if Paul was drawing upon something from some now unknown sect that bridged that gap we appear to be seeing between traditional 2nd Temple Judaic practices and beliefs and his Greco-Hebrew view. The more I look at it the more it seems there are missing links, however untenable, between Paul's view and the otherwise standard Jewish one in Israel.

One wonders at the groups he was preaching to; especially in Galatians where he rants about how the 'foolish Galatians' were 'bewitched' into following the Law. Why would they have any inclination to do that? There seems to have been some reluctance even in these apparently total Pagan-before-conversion communities that confuses me. The other problem is we only have Paul's letters, so we don't know the other half of the conversation.

This is a very good point. I have no idea.

To me though the beginnings of Christianity does have something to do with Jewish thought at the time. It definitely coincided with political issues at the time between the Jews and Romans. And there was also confusion between whether the laws have to be kept or not. The audience in Galatians would have been former pagans who were being confused because the Jewish Christians were telling them that they must follow jewish practice.

I think this confusion arises because Jewish Christians were told that they could keep their jewish heritage, as what happened with Paul as he had to participate in a Jewish practice in acts when he was a Christian. So Jews were still allowed to practice Judaism and to what extent was a grey area.

 

[Samael_Khan]

OK. So!

One question that hasn't been explored yet:

Does the book of Daniel say that the Messiah must have arrived before the destruction of the second temple?

 

[Harel13]

OK. So!

One question that hasn't been explored yet:

Does the book of Daniel say that the Messiah must have arrived before the destruction of the second temple?

No. There, done. Okay, new thread.

 

[Samael_Khan]

No. There, done. Okay, new thread.

No no no! Not good enough. I need textual analysis here.

Also I want to go into the imagery of Daniel and the calculations.

Because Christianity and Jesus rely a lot upon that.

 

[Samael_Khan]

No. There, done. Okay, new thread.

Should I start a new thread on this rather?

 

[Harel13]

Should I start a new thread on this rather?

Nah, it's fine here (in my opinion).

 

[Faithofchristian]

The best bit is where Paul's preaching is so long and boring Eutychus falls asleep and falls out of a window.

7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
8 There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together.
9 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, "Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him."
11 Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till daybreak, he departed.
12 And they brought the young man in alive, and they were not a little comforted.

There's more there than Eutychus falling asleep.
That you skip right over...maybe you should read it again.
But this time read it with understanding what is really happening..

 

[dybmh]

The calculation in Daniel has been discussed here... I recall @rosends detailing it.

I searched and found this:

Daniel 9:24-27

 

[Samael_Khan]

The calculation in Daniel has been discussed here... I recall @rosends detailing it.

I searched and found this:

Daniel 9:24-27

Thanks!

The sources Rosends linked to on that thread are actually ones that were sent to me in this thread. I should explore them more.

 

[Vouthon]

*****MODERATION NOTICE: Thread moved to General Religious Debates per staff consensus*****

 

[Harel13]

@Israel Khan
I forsee things about to get bumpy.

 

[Samael_Khan]

@Israel Khan
I forsee things about to get bumpy.

Yeah, I think it started to go beyond that Q&A part.

I should take @Rival advice and start an invite only debate.

 

[Harel13]

Yeah, I think it started to go beyond that Q&A part.

I should take @Rival advice and start an invite only debate.

Sounds good.

 

[BilliardsBall]

An interesting point about Luke 4 that @BilliardsBall mentioned.

Here Jesus quotes Isaiah 61.

Verse 1 says that "The Spirit of the LORD God is upon me because the LORD has anointed me." But then the person speaking is revealed to be God himself in verse 8: "For I, the LORD, love justice". Am I reading it wrong?

No, Yeshua/Jesus claimed godhood, and received kneeling worship while He was here.

 

[Samael_Khan]

No, Yeshua/Jesus claimed godhood, and received kneeling worship while He was here.

What do you make of the view that when Thomas said "My Lord and My God" that "My Lord" was addressed to Jesus only and "My God" was rather addressed to God above? Alternatively what about the idea that Thomas was saying it out of shock like when we say today "Oh my God"?

 

[BilliardsBall]

What do you make of the view that when Thomas said "My Lord and My God" that "My Lord" was addressed to Jesus only and "My God" was rather addressed to God above? Alternatively what about the idea that Thomas was saying it out of shock like when we say today "Oh my God"?

1) Thomas knelt before Jesus

2) Jesus didn't reprove Thomas, nor did the disciples, nor did anyone ever, when Jesus accepted worship in the New Testament

3) The Pharisees called for Jesus to die only after they found the one crime they were able to prove of Him--that He equated Himself with God--biblical blasphemy is "I am One with God"

Be encouraged as you keep pursuing Jesus! He is King, God and Savior IMHO!

 

[Terry Sampson]

In a flat-earth world, traveling to the end of the ocean will subsequently lead you to falling over the edge and under the ocean, where some believed Tartarus was.

Au contraire, mon ami. Traveling to the end of the ocean will take you to the Antartic.

Unless you travel carefully in a different direction, in which case you'll be traveling in a circle.

 

[Harel13]

Au contraire, mon ami. Traveling to the end of the ocean will take you to the Antartic.

That's not how it was in DreamWorks' Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas...

Anyway:

"Greece
Poets
Both Homer[15] and Hesiod[16] described a disc cosmography on the Shield of Achilles.[17][18] This poetic tradition of an Earth-encircling (gaiaokhos) sea (Oceanus) and a disc also appears in Stasinus of Cyprus,[19] Mimnermus,[20] Aeschylus,[21] and Apollonius Rhodius.[22]​

Homer's description of the disc cosmography on the shield of Achilles with the encircling ocean is repeated far later in Quintus Smyrnaeus' Posthomerica (4th century AD), which continues the narration of the Trojan War.[23" Flat Earth - Wikipedia​

 

[Terry Sampson]

That's not how it was in DreamWorks' Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas...

Sinbad?? Now you're pulling my leg.

Both Homer[15] and Hesiod[16] described a disc cosmography ... poetic tradition of an Earth-encircling sea...

Look at my maps again: Earth-encircling sea in both of them. The only serious difference between them and Homer & Hesiod's version is that Homer and Hesiod didn't know about the Antartic circle, which is necessary to keep the water from flowing off the earth's surface.