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Featured From a Deos to Your God

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Heyo, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    There are quite a few current discussions about the existence of god(s) and they haven't changed much in the last few hundreds of years. No new arguments on either side and it tends to get boring.
    I like to introduce a new discussion (again, former attempts didn't yield much attention).

    Assuming the existence of a creator is given, how do you get to your understanding of god?

    You may make additional assumptions but you have to point them out, no hidden assumptions.
    Try to keep your assumptions minimal.

    Those who don't participate will function as referees, pointing out hidden assumptions and keeping score.
     
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  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I'm sorry... what is the purpose of "keeping score" exactly? I get the importance of being salient of foundational assumptions (we all have them) but given that our foundational assumptions are often so deeply-engrained we don't notice them, it isn't exactly fair to be "keeping score" when someone forgets to mention one of them. The idea of scorekeeping doesn't exactly set a good stage for a non-hostile debate or discussion environment. It's certainly making me not want to bother.
     
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  3. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member

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    I don't really feel like contributing much for the following reason myself:

    I think @Heyo is a nice guy, but it comes down to this:

    1. Religious people have a way of finding symbolism and connection in events which atheists/agnostics would never understand.

    2. Atheists/agnostics require a level of evidence to any assertion they pay attention to, in a way religious people would never understand.

    It's hard enough to have such a debate with someone of the same faith as me.
     
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  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I don't know if I'd characterize it as an inability to understand. This is sometimes the case - particularly where people are unaware of their foundational assumptions and how that shapes their worldviews - but more often than not it's mostly a product of worldviews being different from one another. If you're using map A to interpret the territory, you'll navigate it differently than if you're using map B to interpret the territory. That sort of thing. Some folks are good at using multiple maps or paradigm shifting, others are not.
     
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  5. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    @Quintessence, @KAT-KAT,

    thank you for your contributions. I appreciate your helpful criticism. Maybe I have always failed to find the encouraging words to make such a debate a success.
    I also see you both rarely in the "does god exist" debates, so you may have never been that much interested in those kind of questions. I hope some of the debaters who frequent those discussions are interested in trying something new and don't get repelled by my setup.
    Please, if you don't like the "rules" but have something to contribute, do.
     
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  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    That is a very good question, @Heyo.
    The truth is: how can we define God when in Indoeuropean languages it deals with terms (deus, gott, deva) invented to describe anthropomorphical deities? In Germanic or Greek Paganism...for example.
    At a certain point of history, God has become something purely metaphysical...and so it is very difficult to describe Him as a creator...even if when Christians speak of Him, for example, do anthropomorphize Him. And yet with so many Christians believing in Evolution...the concept of Creator becomes metaphorical, allegorical.

    How do I get to my understanding of God?
    In several moments of my life I felt so close to God that I could describe Him better.
    It is when a person experiments love, compassion...empathy...that God becomes visible. But of course it is not a person.
     
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  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I have no understanding of God. God is the great mystery source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is. And I am trusting in the benevolence of this unknown because I need to, and because my life is better when I do.
     
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  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    At the basis of all knowledge is some assumption. The point being I suppose is whether the assumption are hidden from ourselves, the believer in God or not.
    Though one doesn't need to be a believer in a God to have hidden assumption in our knowledge which allows folks some unjustified certainty.

    While it can be a beneficial discussion, I've found it very difficult, actually bordering on impossible to get some people to accept/acknowledge the hidden assumptions at the basis of their knowledge. Or maybe a number are aware of the necessity of assumptions made for the sake of knowledge and choose the ones they are comfortable with.

    So there is no negative judgement against people for their assumptions, as we all have them.
     
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  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Thanks for being understanding!

    I rarely participate much in the "does god exist" debates because I think it's a stupid question. The reasons why I think it's a stupid question are probably best expressed in a recent post I made here:


    How people answer the question has very little to do with the gods themselves but with a person's philosophical assumptions about the nature of reality, gods, and evidence. Any given perspective on the gods can be correct or incorrect depending on these assumptions, and these assumptions are foundational (that is, they cannot be proven or disproven).

    But to answer the question of the OP anyway - though I'm not sure I qualify given my gods are not "creator" gods in the sense the OP likely means - one learns about the gods through.... uh ... everything. Literally everything. All academic fields of study from the sciences to the arts and humanities, all personal experiences, all experiences of others, just... everything. All of it. It kind of works that way when your gods are also literally everything. :shrug:
     
    #9 Quintessence, Oct 22, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  10. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    I have my own understandings about creator. I don't relay on anybody else's understandings.
     
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  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    What do you feel would be missing if there was no God?
     
  12. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    The question though is where does your understanding come from? Is it a matter of logical reasoning?
     
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  13. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    Meditation. meditation is the source.
     
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Everything. God is the source of all that is.
     
  15. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Well, I suppose that would make your existence difficult.
     
  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    That wasn't the question. :)
     
  17. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I don't know what you're getting at, here. Yes, I would not exist, either. Nothing would.
     
  18. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Meditation was the source of my knowledge about God too. I followed a Guru for a while and what he told me about God could be experienced during meditation. That certainly reinforced what you are saying.

    What does meditation tell you about God?
     
  19. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    Meditation itself is the teacher. It was an accident discovery in my case.

    Meditation don't tell. Meditation gives taste of God.
     
  20. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Not getting at anything really, just groking the basis of your belief. Your assumption being that nothing could exist without God. That's an assumption I don't have.
     
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