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Featured For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Deeje, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    It almost makes me physically ill to see people defend slavery like this. All because you have to make some old book make some kind of sense about things that are so obviously wrong and immoral.
     
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  2. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    I'll tell you what's wrong with this picture. Human beings today are more moral than your God was all those thousands of years ago. We've progressed, God apparently has not.
     
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  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If we take the scriptures literally, then God has to be classified as being a genocidal maniac, using the Passover narrative as being just one example. Therefore, I would suggest that we need a differing paradigm about God.
     
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  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I am wondering how Eve could be naive when she clearly and correctly answered the serpent at Genesis 3:3 that they should Not eat that forbidden fruit nor even touch it. To answer correctly she would have to have already been educated in that knowledge. Since they were created with human perfection they leaned toward uprightness.
    Eve knew she was to be ' God governed ' but deliberately decided she wanted to be ' self governed '.
    Eve wanted to be a ' goddess ' in choosing for herself what was right and what was wrong in her own eyes.
    Eve could have consulted Adam before eating, instead she chose to do that 'after' she broke the law.
    Besides remember Eve was Not blamed, but Adam's deliberate sin brought sin and imperfection into the world.
    That is why the blame is placed on Adam at Romans 5:12. Adam did Not have to listen to Eve. 1 Timothy 2:14.
     
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  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find Satan was also created with perfection leaning towards righteousness.
    In order for Satan to turn himself into a devil and a satan he would have to deliberately go against his God.
    Remember: Satan never challenged God's Power nor God's Strength, but rather who can govern best.

    At Job 2:4-5 we are all involved Not just Job because we are all challenged by Satan.
    ' Touch our flesh...' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.

    Adam and Eve lived under paradisical conditions and lost their faith or trust in their Creator/Father.
    On the other hand, both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions kept their faith and trust in their God.
    That shows us there was No really good reason for Adam and Eve to do what they did.
    Immediately, at Genesis 3:15, God lets us know He is going to undo the damage Satan brought upon us.
     
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  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Very funny. I didn't say that he was close minded; only that he was coming across as close minded. That's constructive. I'm not here to belittle people.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I think you know there was No slavery in Eden.
    I think you can reason slavery would have never existed if mankind had not fallen into sin's imperfection.
    Unlike surrounding nations, Israel was never in the slave-trade business as the U.S. southern south was.
    Since there were No jails a person could be in slavery for six years to pay off debts and be treated as hired help - Leviticus 25:39-40. Leviticus 19:33-37 also tells us how strangers were to be treated.
    I wonder what you find wrong with the ' Jubilee Year '
     
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  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Who gets to decide what is right and wrong? You? Or maybe the government?
     
  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Hilarious! You get to dictate morality to the one who gave you that faculty in the first place? :D

    The most moral Being in existence gets to answer to those who are by comparison, on the level of an amoeba. Yep. :rolleyes:
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder why you stopped at commandment number 10 when the first 10 were only the beginning of over 600 laws.
    I find at Deuteronomy 22:23-27 that a man was to be 'put to death' (executed) for raping.
    I find that is Not the punishment for rape in this country, and why not?

    Since you mentioned the first ten, I find strangers (Non-Israleites) are included in that rest day at Exodus 20:10 B.
    Wasn't the death penalty to be carried out according to Exodus 21:12______

    Sure if we were to ask someone today, but I find the 1st-century slavery was part of the Roman economic system.
    Christians do Not make the laws, but live under them. So, in the 1st century, Onesimus was to be treated as a ' brother ' would be treated according to Philemon 1:17.
    If everyone lived by the Golden Rule (Leviticus 19:18) then man would Not have dominated man to man's hurt or injury as Solomon brought out at Ecclesiastes 8:9 B.
     
    #690 URAVIP2ME, May 4, 2018
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    In Eden I find it was the Creator who decided what is right or wrong.
    Today a theocratic government means: clergy rule or rule by clergy class. That was Not the Theocracy of Eden.
    The Theocracy of Eden was the keeping of God's Law, Law directed from God and Not from men.
    So, by breaking God's Law then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law in man's hands.
    Adam thus set up People Rule as being superior to God's Rule or Law.
    Only the passing of time would tell who can govern best.
    King Solomon at Ecclesiastes 8:9 observed that man dominates man to man's hurt or injury.
    Jesus believed in the theocracy of Daniel 2:44 and informed us that the good news (Not bad news) of God's kingdom government would be proclaimed on a grand international scale at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 before the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins.
     
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  12. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Man's deluded into thinking that he will decide for himself. Remember it wasn't Adam's idea but the serpent manipulated him. So even now satan who is an angel is stronger than man. (2 Peter 2:11) And may always prevail over men. God's Law is freedom because it is stronger than satan.
     
  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    "How did the "black servants" get to be in the South in the first place?"

    Of COURSE you bring up something that has NOTHING to do with the matter at hand. Hebrews owned non-Hebrews as slaves for their entire lives and could beat them to the verge of death. Southern slave owners owned slaves for their entire lives and beat them to the verge of death. The Southern slave owners tried to claim that their slaves were BETTER OFF being slaves. That they had food, and housing and jobs! Now YOU use the EXACT same pathetic argument to try and justify the Hebrews owning their slaves by claiming that they were BETTER OFF and were provided food, housing and JOBS! I KNOW you don't think that black slaves were BETTER OFF being owned as property, yet for some inane reason you're willing to believe that for non-Hebrew slaves 'it was preferable to poverty.' I don't think that ANYONE would prefer to be owned for life by someone who could beat them at will, instead of merely being poor.

    "In Israel, that was the law for an Israelite slave. They had to be released after 6 years. That is what I wrote."

    Yeah, we established that fellow Hebrews could only be owned for 6 years. But of course what I said was that God condones slavery in the bible and your response was that it was a kind of slavery where they had to be let go after 6 years. But we know from the quotes I provided that what you said is a bald faced LIE, because God DOES condone owning slaves for their entire lives.

    Sadly this went EXACTLY as I expected. Every time I point out to a Christian that God condones slavery, I get the exact same answers.
    FIRST you blatantly lie and try to suggest that the ONLY kind of slavery God condones was indentured servitude.
    SECONDLY, once your LIE is pointed out you do some ethical gymnastics and try to claim that the people who were enslaved during that time actually LIKED being slaves, as if the Hebrews were doing them some huge FAVOR by taking them as property.

    Do you imagine that the Hebrews first ASKED the people they were about the enslave if that's what they WANTED? And if they said: "No thanks, I'd rather stay poor," the Hebrew told them "No problem! I certainly wouldn't want to enslave you AGAINST YOUR WILL."

    Not surprised that you're done listening to my 'rants'. It must be terribly difficult to continue deluding yourself into believing that God doesn't condone slavery when constantly presented with your God's own words indicating that he most certainly does.
     
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  14. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I stopped at 10 because I was talking about what people would consider to be the TOP TEN worst moral offenses someone would commit, NOT the top 300. From what I recall it's the TEN Commandments, not the THREE HUNDRED Commandments.

    Okay, slavery was part of the Roman economic system. So what? Why is God prohibited from pointing out immoral behavior that's part of an economic system? I suspect that there were those who made their livings catching shellfish, but God didn't hesitate to proclaim eating shellfish to be a sin. Not only can't he condemn slavery, for some bizarre reason He felt compelled to CONDONE it
     
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  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    This is not correct. Many Christians make the he error of how follow Hebrews were treated with how all slaves were treated at that time. Slavery for non-Hebrews was for life, and not that different from the Old South.
     
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  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Another thing that most Christians are confused about are the Ten Commandments.

    Let's first define them. Would you agree that this is a proper definition of the Ten Commandments:

    They were given to Moses by God.

    They were carved in stone.

    And they are called the Ten Commandments in the Bible.

    Does that sound reasonable to you?
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I don't know of any eye witnesses to the non-Hebrew slavery as to how they were treated.
    What passages do you have in mind as was carried out in the Old South.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    The Decalogue is often referred to as the Ten Commandments but that does Not mean there were only ten.
    The Constitution of the Mosaic Law contract has about 613 commandments of which the first ten are part of those 600 plus commandments.
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Leviticus 25 44-46 tells you how slavery for non Hebrews was for life.
    Exodus 21 20-21 tells you that as long as a slave does not die within a day or two from a beating that there is to be no punishment. There is even a verse that tells an owner how to make a fellow Hebrew a slave for life.

    Eyewitnesses are not needed when the Bible condemns itself.
     
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