Flood Evidences — revised

[Subduction Zone]

And you have probably seen this before, but it does describe a massive flood in the Tigris Euphrates system that was likely to be the inspiration for the flood myth:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

Many myths are based upon actual events. That of course does not mean that we should take the myths literally at all, but it does explain how they may have started out.

 

[sooda]

And you have probably seen this before, but it does describe a massive flood in the Tigris Euphrates system that was likely to be the inspiration for the flood myth:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

Many myths are based upon actual events. That of course does not mean that we should take the myths literally at all, but it does explain how they may have started out.

Thanks.

Shuruppak , modern Tell Fara, was an ancient Sumerian city situated about 55 kilometres (35 mi) south of Nippur on the banks of the Euphrates in Iraq's Al-Qādisiyyah Governorate. Shuruppak was dedicated to Ninlil, also called Sud, the goddess of grain and the air.

Dilmun of the story is Bahrain.

 

[Audie]

Yes. it is typical of flood plains so why are we having this conversation? Why do you think its called the Fertile Crescent?

It is hardly a conversation if you just repost the same
completely irrelevant picture with a snarky question,
while ignoring my observation that your certainty
about the myth's origin is (highly) questionable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is hardly a conversation if you just repost the same
completely irrelevant picture with a snarky question,
while ignoring my observation that your certainty
about the myth's origin is (highly) questionable.

No doubt. One must use qualifiers when dealing with this sort of topic. It is rather difficult to test the idea properly. With my favorite example I like to say it seems the most likely source to me. Some floods fail when investigated, like the Black Sea flood. We have records of that because of towns that were inundated. But buildings cannot walk away. At the rate that that flood likely advanced one could have crawled away from it.

 

[Audie]

And you have probably seen this before, but it does describe a massive flood in the Tigris Euphrates system that was likely to be the inspiration for the flood myth:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

Many myths are based upon actual events. That of course does not mean that we should take the myths literally at all, but it does explain how they may have started out.

The there is "how likely". Of course it is
possible, including that it is possible those
guys got to thinking that maybe a super
flood could come along, and made up
stories about a person who got ready for
such a thing.

Lots of "may have", but those who claim either
the bible story or some other as certain fact
are being ridiculous.

An acquaintance who lived in a Indian res
in Alaska told me about a myth from that
community, about how two nearby hills were
formed, A giant was carrying a big rock, dropped
it and it broke into two pieces.

Sure there are hills there, if one could call that
a basis for a myth.

That one even had a known origin, a now -
grandmother answering her child's question.
She made it up on the spot, and was laughing
when she told the anthropologist about how
now people are telling it as a real event.

 

[Audie]

No doubt. One must use qualifiers when dealing with this sort of topic. It is rather difficult to test the idea properly. With my favorite example I like to say it seems the most likely source to me. Some floods fail when investigated, like the Black Sea flood. We have records of that because of towns that were inundated. But buildings cannot walk away. At the rate that that flood likely advanced one could have crawled away from it.

Hardly even that fast when you consider at first it would be
only waves from a high high tide that could get through,
as the level of the mediterranean slowly rose.

I like to think about things that can have some real data
and calculations applied. Origin of flood myth
(complete with ark's manifest!) is impossible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hardly even that fast when you consider at first it would be
only waves from a high high tide that could get through,
as the level of the mediterranean slowly rose.

I like to think about things that can have some real data
and calculations applied. Origin of flood myth
(complete with ark's manifest!) is impossible.

If I recall correctly it was more than that. A natural dam failed and there was a massive flow into the Black Sea. The problem is that since it was already a large body of water even a massive flow amounted to only a slow rate of advance. Too fast to move buildings out of the way, but not too fast for people to leave:

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

"According to the researchers, "40 km3 (10 cu mi) of water poured through each day, two hundred times the flow of Niagara Falls. "

Though that seems to be a huge amount of water one must remember that the area flooded was 60,000 square miles and then there was the existing area that had to have a rise as well. The Black Sea would have gone from roughly 108,000 square miles to 168,000 square miles. At the start, let's call the surface area 100,000 square miles, and the given rate of 10 cubic miles a day of water. That would be a rise of 1/10,000 of a mile a day. Or about 2/3 of an inch a day in vertical lake level rise. As I said, one could crawl away from it.

 

[Audie]

If I recall correctly it was more than that. A natural dam failed and there was a massive flow into the Black Sea. The problem is that since it was already a large body of water even a massive flow amounted to only a slow rate of advance. Too fast to move buildings out of the way, but not too fast for people to leave:

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

"According to the researchers, "40 km3 (10 cu mi) of water poured through each day, two hundred times the flow of Niagara Falls. "

Though that seems to be a huge amount of water one must remember that the area flooded was 60,000 square miles and then there was the existing area that had to have a rise as well. The Black Sea would have gone from roughly 108,000 square miles to 168,000 square miles. At the start, let's call the surface area 100,000 square miles, and the given rate of 10 cubic miles a day of water. That would be a rise of 1/10,000 of a mile a day. Or about 2/3 of an inch a day in vertical lake level rise. As I said, one could crawl away from it.

I would have to see some serious data for the
"Natural dam". The channel dried and refilled
any number of times with glacial advances and
retreats. As you presumably know.

My understanding is that this flood hypothesis is
a bit of an eye-roll among geologists, who presented
with no data find it is just a couple of guys seeking
cheap publicity.

 

[Jose Fly]

My goodness! I'm not lying!
The point is, people like Winston Churchill and others definitely saw something metaphysical, ie., beyond the natural, when they observed "Lincoln".
But the Bible says "the dead know nothing."

So I believe -- unlike most Christians, but probably like you -- that the dead are dead, but events like what occurred w/Churchill, happen all the time!

What's the deal?

Let me ask you this....there are RF members who claim to speak regularly w/ their gods, or their spirit guides, or some spirit entity. Do you think they're all nuts?


I don't, I believe they're really communicating with invisible beings, who may include the ones mentioned as "sons of God", angels, who rebelled against Jehovah before the Flood, in Genesis 6:1-4. They became the demons, entities that have no concern for humans!

They pretend to be gods, or ghosts... or anything to mislead. UFO's could be caused by them. The Bible tells us all we need to know. As Revelation 12:9 says.... "And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

And yes, the myths of Greece, Rome, etc., were based on the activities of these beings before the Flood. (Genesis 6:1-4, again; Jude 1:6...Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling--these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day..

Okay then....have fun with all that.

And once again, your dodging of every attempt to get you to address your baseless accusation is very, very telling. Let's just say it doesn't speak well of you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Okay then....have fun with all that.

And once again, your dodging of every attempt to get you to address your baseless accusation is very, very telling. Let's just say it doesn't speak well of you.

I’m dodging what “accusation “?

 

[Jose Fly]

I’m dodging what “accusation “?

When I asked you why you thought the world's geologists, many of whom are Christian, have concluded that the Biblical flood didn't happen, you claimed "They have to, to be accepted by mainstream! They need to keep their jobs. Real easy to figure out."

I noted how that's a serious accusation against a large number of people, and asked you to provide evidence of this conspiracy. You've ignored those requests every single time.

 

[Audie]

When I asked you why you thought the world's geologists, many of whom are Christian, have concluded that the Biblical flood didn't happen, you claimed "They have to, to be accepted by mainstream! They need to keep their jobs. Real easy to figure out."

I noted how that's a serious accusation against a large number of people, and asked you to provide evidence of this conspiracy. You've ignored those requests every single time.

Hey, didnt you hear of "expelled"???

The claim that hock made is one that they get from
whatever creosites they frequent.

There is no way they got this from actual observation
within the hallowed halls of academe because:

A. They've never graced said halls with their presence
B. It does not happen.

Of course, they will bitterly cling to this falsehood, for lo,
to give it up is to risk everything.

It is almost a shame that there isnt some truth in it
because there would be such opportunity for people
in some less idiotic institution to get Nobel after Nobel,
just by publishing what the cowards wont.

 

[Jose Fly]

Hey, didnt you hear of "expelled"???

He'd better not go there, especially since we're talking about flood geology, not "design".

There is no way they got this from actual observation
within the hallowed halls of academe because:

A. They've never graced said halls with their presence
B. It does not happen.

Of course, they will bitterly cling to this falsehood, for lo,
to give it up is to risk everything.

Exactly. One wonders how a person who has little to no exposure to academic and professional geology is able to make sweeping accusations against so many geologists. It's almost like it's just something he's learned to tell himself to help cope with an uncomfortable reality.

It is almost a shame that there isnt some truth in it
because there would be such opportunity for people
in some less idiotic institution to get Nobel after Nobel,
just by publishing what the cowards wont.

Yup. I've offered to help several creationists write up their arguments into a manuscript and see if we can get it published (that way I'd get to see this alleged conspiracy for myself). Oddly enough, no one has taken me up on the offer.

 

[Audie]

He'd better not go there, especially since we're talking about flood geology, not "design".


Exactly. One wonders how a person who has little to no exposure to academic and professional geology is able to make sweeping accusations against so many geologists. It's almost like it's just something he's learned to tell himself to help cope with an uncomfortable reality.


Yup. I've offered to help several creationists write up their arguments into a manuscript and see if we can get it published (that way I'd get to see this alleged conspiracy for myself). Oddly enough, no one has taken me up on the offer.

Imagine, if you've done a thesis defense, what
it would be like to try to get a creoclaim past a
committee.
They would be sure to ask for data!

 

[Jose Fly]

Imagine, if you've done a thesis defense, what
it would be like to try to get a creoclaim past a
committee.
They would be sure to ask for data!

I think some creationists imagine a scenario where as soon as they give any hint at all that they're arguing against evolution or for the flood, the academics/scientists will explode and scream at them to "get outta here with your religious garbage!!!!! It's why my avatar is a Chick Tract's representation of what fundamentalists think science teachers are like. They seriously think science classes are like this....

Chick.com: Big Daddy?

 

[Audie]

I think some creationists imagine a scenario where as soon as they give any hint at all that they're arguing against evolution or for the flood, the academics/scientists will explode and scream at them to "get outta here with your religious garbage!!!!! It's why my avatar is a Chick Tract's representation of what fundamentalists think science teachers are like. They seriously think science classes are like this....

Chick.com: Big Daddy?

I have run across creos who claim that was their
personal experience.

 

[Jose Fly]

I have run across creos who claim that was their
personal experience.

And I'm sure there are some cases of really rude science teachers, just like I've had experiences with extreme religious indoctrination in public school. But the mistake they make is assuming that their experiences are indicative of how things are everywhere else too.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

One wonders how a person who has little to no exposure to academic and professional geology.....

Now who’s clearly making assumptions? You have no idea of what degrees I hold, or “exposure” I’ve had.

 

[Jose Fly]

Now who’s clearly making assumptions? You have no idea of what degrees I hold, or “exposure” I’ve had.

True, but going by your posts here it's clear to me that you haven't had much exposure to geology in a professional or academic sense. So again, where is your evidence for your accusation?

 

[Audie]

Now who’s clearly making assumptions? You have no idea of what degrees I hold, or “exposure” I’ve had.

Assumptions? You make it as obvious as it would be
that I am not a football expert, if i starting talking about
goalies and home runs at a post game wrapup.

NOBODY who had a clue would say the equally ridiculous
things you say.

Then too, there is the JW thing about avoiding all of
that academic larnin' stuff, on account of it might cure y'all
of your weird ideas.