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Featured Flood Evidences — revised

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Hockeycowboy, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Global Flood evidence:

    ***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

    http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

    The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters existing above the Earth prior to the Flood, resulted in mild temperatures, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

    All of that drastically changed, with the break in this vapor(?) / ice (?) canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

    ***2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
    ‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

    And this one:
    Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

    Further information:
    Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
    The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


    The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

    Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

    ***3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

    ***4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.



    ***5.Furthermore, the Bible indicates, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

    ***6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

    ***7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

    ***8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

    Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Let’s see what the Genesis account reveals: He brought the waters above and below to Earth’s surface....He gave Noah instructions on building the Ark, providing those ideal proportions....He brought the animals to Noah (No, Noah didn’t have to go get them, as some dishonestly purport.)....and He closed the door. Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?

    Jehovah God is not required to explain anything more to us....what we do know, the evidence, is enough to build faith in the account.

    Another indirect line of evidence, as to why God would cause such a catastrophe, are the Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, etc., myths describing “gods” interacting w/ humans, having relations w/ women, and producing offspring. (Since most all myths have some kernel of truth, this common narrative between them, of gods having sex w/ human females & bearing children, must be it.) It parallels Genesis 6:1-4, and explains to some extent why Jehovah had to step in, to thwart the eventual subjugation of the human race into sex slavery. But these “myths” created after the event, have kept it living in the collective mind of the human race.
     
    #1 Hockeycowboy, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .

    Curious. What is your source for

    "the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability!"
    And

    "Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy."

    .
     
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  3. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    If there was a short ice age following the flood it makes sense.

    Warm oceans in a cooling planet would result in a lot of snow producing an ice a
     
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  4. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    If there was a short ice age following the flood it makes sense.

    Warm oceans in a cooling planet would result in a lot of snow producing an ice a
     
  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    You do realize that if the water canopy which is pretty much made-up nonsense, but hypothetically if the water canopy were to let loose, Noah would been boiled alive like a lobster.
     
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  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Additionally the water in the earth is found in the form of ringwoodite , so it could not have swelled up at all out of the ground. Even so it would be boiling hot , like the geyser water coming out of Yellowstone.

    Boiled from above, boiled from below.

    Addum....

    Also there cannot be a water canopy above the earth. That would be impossible.

    Here's why..

    What would happen if you pour water into space? | Cool Cosmos

    I would recommend a science book over the Bible any day of the week.
     
    #6 Nowhere Man, Aug 1, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  7. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    Nothing is revised. These are the same sad arguments you have made before. All of it was explained to you.

    Your buttercup mammoth is a BS story.

    Thank you for this lovely example of denialism.
     
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  8. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    The Watchtower said it. It must be true.

    His evidence is vastly exaggerated, often completely fabricated or entirely irrelevant as support for a global flood.
     
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  9. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    At this point, I don't think there is evidence that would stand up in a court of law to prove that a single thing we think about any religion is proveable. It remains for everyone to function according to their own conscience. It is obvious to me that the sole purpose of any religious tome is to bring things to mind that will make us better people. To me, it is further obvious that God exists, but I don't force my beliefs on anyone. If anyone can't get that, please just stay away from me and go your merry way in peace.
     
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  10. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    The stories are about our relationship with God. I see no reason that relationship would be tainted by not being able to support the reality of a global flood. I see no reason that it has to be real in the first place. To me it is a silly demand that is placed on the Bible by people. It is not a demand I place on the Bible.
     
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  11. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    I dont agree with your assumption.
    In the nebular theory which describes the Earth as a wet and soft entity, with a moist filled atmosphere, there would be 3 sources delivering water on the Earth's surface.
    1. Water that was caught up beneath the Earth's surface when it formed by accretion from "Dirty snow balls, such as science now knows Commets are composed of, that got bushed to the surface.
    2. water in a moist atmosphere, that would not be warm as you claim, but the same temperature we experience in areas where fog occurs.
    3. and lastly, as Emmanuel Kant described in 1755 that the Earth must have had a ring before it fully formed into an earth we know today.
    All 3 of the above are scientific theories supported by observations of our solar system, and the deterioration of various rings such as Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, which is strong evidence of how its rings are pulled into the planet, Neptune, and a few "small bodies and moons in our solar system.
    Due to the position of the Earth in it's "Goldy locks" zone, water were abundant in its region where it collected its matter from due to accretion.
    This matter was frozen, and not boiling hit as you suggest, perhaps as low as minus 270 deg celcius.

    The problem with an assumption that the water of the Earth was delivered by comets, rather than "Space Snow", originates from the fact that Atheists in the beginning of the 20th century did not like the Nebular theory of Kant, because he virtually used Genesis as his source to formulate the Nebular theory.
    Atheists such as Laplace did his best to come up with an alternative, where he explained that the Sun "Popped" out the planets, and formed from this hot matter.
    problem for this "Hadean Epoch", is that science proved him wrong on 2 instances.
    1. Angular Momentum of the Planets does not calculate at all to conservation of the ennergy these bodies should have.
    2. Science are discovering that the Earth was not formed from a hot ball of magma, but rather a more cooler, wetter accretion of matter, which consisted of Icey mud balls.

    Therefore, for 3400 years Genesis said something, which was described in 1755 as the Nebular theory, or model, and was proven correct over the next 270 years.
    I love it when science reveals the description of Genesis on creation as scientifically true.
    Water was present during birth of Earth, study of silver suggests
    http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/spaceshotsairheads/Kantuniversalnaturalhistory.pdf
    nebular.jpg
     
  12. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    Revised? Your first link is © 1970, 1973!
     
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  13. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Resorting to attacks, huh? I thought you'd be bigger than that. (You've proven otherwise, before.)
    You won't find one quote from the Watchtower.
    "Vastly exaggerated"? Right!
     
  14. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Both of your questions are answered in the link I provided, detailing Dr. Seon Hong's study.
    I know your first question is answered.
     
  15. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    No, why would you claim that water entering from space would be boiling hot?

    Simply because you think that if any particle enter from outer space into the atmosphere, it would burn due to friction travelling at 25 000 to 160 000 Miles per hour.
    In this scenario, I agree.
    But this is not what we are talking about at all.
    The snowball dust that fell onto the earth was "Part" of the atmosphere!
    We are talking of matter that were turning with the velocity of the earth at a height of about 150Km to 300 Km.
    itself be at a temperature of minus 170 to 250 deg celcius.
    All that actually happened was that a lot of hail fell on the Earth, and if there was any friction, it was cooled down to water temperature.
     
  16. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Yes, there would be for sure!
     
  17. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your affirmation of the OP!
    I appreciate the support!
    Although I should tell you, I'm not a YEC. I haven't found the Bible to support that view.
    We can discuss that privately, if you'd like.
     
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  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Yes, somewhat revised. You won't find buttercups mentioned (although if I remember correctly, that was one of several species discovered in the Berezhovka Mammoth's stomach.)

    I'm in denial. That's funny.
    Tell me... If you believe that the miracles in the Bible really didn't happen -- 'teaching aids', as you suggested -- why would Jesus accuse those skeptical Sadducees, 'You don't know the power of God'?
     
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  19. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    This one nevver fails to **** me off. "How could an ancient human living in a boat using culture POSSIBLY know the ratio dimensions of boats? It is truly evidence of divine intervention!"

    No it isn't ****wit, it's evidence that the author of the Noah story looked at a ****ing boat.
     
  20. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Every one of these PRATTS has been answered a thousand times. Find me an alleged flood deposit with any two animals from different eras colocated, (a saurian dinosaur with a mammoth, for example) and we'll talk.
     
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