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Featured Faith in science?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Jaiket, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    What is agreement in physical terms? What is the scientific physical theory of agreement?
     
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    . . . while they contemplate their naval and bark at the moon.
     
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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Science is descriptive of the nature of our physical existence, and the terminology is used and evolves as to what is needed to consistently communicate between scientists.

    The American Association for the Advancement of Science places a large role in standardizing scientific terminology as science evolves, and the needs of terminology change.

    Metaphysical Naturalism.
     
    #83 shunyadragon, Jan 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yes, absolutely. Just like we choose the standard for what is considered to be 'charged' or 'green'. Once we make that choice, we have more ability to study those things classified in that way.

    If it turns out that our initial classification is unhelpful, we can change definitions later. This is done quite often.
     
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  5. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    The quote you gave up thread was philosophy. What Hard Problem? | Issue 99 | Philosophy Now
    You are contemplating your naval and barking at the moon. Just like we all do. We use philosophy to justify our world views. You have done so before and so have I. I just admit it. :D
     
  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    That is philosophy. Keep contemplating your navel and barking at the moon. :D
     
  7. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    So you speak for a "we" that is not there as for what is helpful to humans. How authoritarian of you.
     
  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    The humans studying that phenomenon and wanting to understand it.

    That's not authoritarian. It is accepting the conclusions of experts.
     
  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    That it is helpful is your opinion. And you are not the expert of what is helpful to humans. That is not science nor mathematics or logic. That is at best social science.
     
  10. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Not sure what you mean??

    Give me an example
     
  11. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No, we should be open to them guiding us as to what some of these questions mean and indeed if they mean anything at all. I find Pigliucci quite refreshingly incisive on the "hard problem" for instance. It gives me faith - yes, that word again - that my own instinct to dismiss it as not a valid question - may be reasonable, or at any rate shared by some people with brains.
     
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  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No, misuse of the nature of different ways 'Philosophy.' Is used.

    Yes, there is a philosophy that is the foundation of Metaphysical Naturalism with the assumption of the uniformity of the nature of or physical existence, but, unlike the rest of the subjective philosophy, this assumption is objectively tested with continuously, repeatedly confirming the uniformity of our physical existence with the falsification of theories and hypothesis.
     
  13. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Do try to keep up.:rolleyes:
     
  14. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry to have appalled you. What aspects or areas of a basic science education would help in your opinion?

    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

    What I'm asking is, is my belief that science will eventually solve this problem a kind of faith?

    I'm trying to acknowledge that I, an atheist (and also an avid follower of science if you can believe it), may have a belief without evidence.

    I don't expect science to tell me what it feels like to be conscious or what it is like to be bat. What would absolutely tickle my bones would be a theory that explains the connection between matter and experience.

    Maybe the world is such that we can only point to certain patterns of neural firing and say, this process is experiential and that's just how it is. That would be unsatisfying but I'm fine with it if we now know that this is just the way the world is. It might imply some strange things about the world.

    Neither do I. Scientists are just people.

    Ok. We could just define consciousness as any kind of experience and we don't have to worry about what that means because there isn't one of us who doesn't know what it is to experience.

    It might be the case that physical science can't answer these questions. Or alternatively that physical science is just fine but humans don't have the capacity to answer the question or understand the answer. Nobody expects chimps to understand any of our theories and this doesn't reflect poorly on the theories.

    If the world isn't purely physical (which it might not be) I do hope that consciousness still is. It would be really disappointing if we found that we can't solve the riddle because the answer lies in a place that our only useful tools don't work.
     
  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    What is the best methodology for being a human?
     
  16. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    I suppose one can say we have evidence of the explanatory power of the the scientific method, which proceeds on the basis of methodological naturalism, in making sense of the physical world. But it is clearly true that methodological naturalism is an axiomatic principle, employed before any evidence-gathering commences, and then justified retrospectively by the successes that science has had.
     
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  17. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but at least I have one while the rest is still bickering at which end to open an egg.
     
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  18. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Is the world purely physical?
    No, because your understanding of this "no" has no physical properties. You can't hold or otherwise engage with it with your physical body. It has no physical scientific measurement standard and there is no scientific theory for it.

    Further you can't see that the world is physical. That is a mental idea in your brain and only real, because you believe in it.
     
  19. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    If I am studying a subject deeply, my opinion on what is helpful for understanding it *is* relevant because I am the expert.

    Of course, experts can disagree. But when they do agree, it is usually a good idea to listen to what they say.
     
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  20. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, start studying how you can't avoid subjectivity and learn to admit that. Your world view is in part subjective just like the rest of us.
     
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