Exodus 16...Sabbath is tied to manna...it predates the 10 commandments

[dybmh]

With all due respect what you are claiming here is nonsense, but let me show you why it is you who is dancing around the truth and avoiding the truth by simply adding the context back into the scriptures are quoting to try and support claims that gentile believers are not to follow God's law.

I will preface my response to you though by saying that we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant and for all of Gods people we no longer fall under the Levitical Priesthood, and the Sanctuary laws of atonement and animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision, and annual Feast days that are linked directly into these Sanctuary laws. These were all shadows of things to come pointing to Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and are now fulfilled and continued in Him (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27, Hebrews 10:1-22 and Colossians 2:16-17).

However Gods 10 commandments and other moral laws, and other dietary and health and hygiene laws are still a requirement for all believers of Gods Word in the new covenant (Matthew 5:17-19) and to break these laws when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods Word is sin according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Now lets add the context back in from the scriptures you posted to see if they agree with what you are claiming that Gentiles are not required to follow any of Gods laws. You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.Lets start with the context of Acts 15:1-2 which states what the problem is and what the Apostles are seeking clarification over.

ACTS 15:1:21​

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new gentile believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. This is the scripture context you disregard. The question was never over the question are gentile Christians now free to break every law written in Torah. The topic context is over the question "is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believer?" It was this question they were seeking to answer at Jerusalem.

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.​

NOTE: Remember as shown through the scriptures earlier, the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments or other laws. The scripture context tells us that Acts 15 is over the question is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers as shown in Acts 15:1-2).

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.​

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.​

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;​

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

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[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.​

[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?​

[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.​

NOTE: They came to the conclusion that salvation is not by being circumcised but by what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

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ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.​

If ACTS 15 was talking about Gods 10 Commandments or other laws of Torah then Paul's writings to the Corinthians gentile believers makes no sense at all where it is written...

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1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.​

Back to Acts 15...

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.​

[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:​

[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.​

[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,​

[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:​

[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.​

[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:​

[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.​

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH DAY.​

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[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:​

[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, YOU MUST BE CIRCUMCISED AND KEEP THE LAW: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:​

[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,​

[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.​

[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​

[29], That you ABSTAIN FROM ANYTHING OFFERED TO IDOLS, AND FROM BLOOD, AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED, AND FROM FORNICATION: FROM WHICH IF YOU KEEP YOURSELVES, YOU SHALL DO WELL. Farewell.​

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter (Acts 15:1-2). v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is taught to them. When? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood (torah laws), and from things strangled, and from fornication. Context proves your claims here are in error.

complete irrelevance. the point is, there is a different law for Christians. This means, Christians are not Israel. If they were Israel, they would not have a different law.

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To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:​

Greetings.​

24It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorization and unsettled you, troubling your minds by what they said.c 25So we all agreed to choose men to send to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing.​

28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29 You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.​

Farewell.​

The law was not given to you. You clearly don't know it.

 

[dybmh]

The Christian bible includes the same Hebrew bible you have and includes all the words of the Messiah that comes from the promises given by God and His prophets in the Hebrew bible and Torah. If you feel it is biased against unbelieving Jews are wrong. It simply states how unbelieving Jews rejected God and His Word and now they departed God to continue in sin and unbelief. Lets get our facts right.

Christianity was given to the world by believing Jews. Christianity came out of the Jewish religion. Jesus is the promised Messiah that came out of the Hebrew bible. I wish brother you could have your eyes opened to believe this and see your God who your people reject to this present day. Yes I am familiar with Torah laws. My bible is both the old and new testament scriptures which came from the Torah.

We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. I will not be giving you any lists of laws but happy to discuss any law with you because as mentioned earlier we are in the new covenant now not the old and all the Levitical Priesthood, and Sanctuary laws of atonement for Gods forgiveness of sins are now fulfilled and continued in the promised Messiah and Gods plan of salvation for all mankind in Jesus to who they all pointed to.

Take Care.

I notice you did not demonstrate knowledge of the law. why not? I asked you the order of the daily temple service by the levites. it's recited every single day across the globe. did you know that? didn't you say the law was given to you?

OK, here's a simple one. Lacking sacrifices there are 3 other methods for atonement. what are they? lacking a temple sacrifice the Jewish people have 3 other ways to atone for sin. Jesus is NOT needed. I repeat Jesus is not needed at all. Did you know that?

It's pretty easy to see the pretenders, because they steal the name Israel, and pretend to be someone they're not. "A wolf in sheep's clothing" Jacob was a shepard. They pretend to be one of Jacob's sheep. Then they pretend to know the law, but they cannot answer simple questions about it.

Sound familiar?



"Spiritual Israel" is a "A wolf in sheep's clothing"

 

[3rdAngel]

You asked my about my religion. I answered. But the topic of our discussion is whether or not Jesus literally "fulfilled" the law, and whether or not the law literally points to Christ.
My position is No, and No. It's a hollow doctrine once a person reads through the list of the 613. But, that is an opinion. Because of that I brought a specific objective example. Jesus cannot literally have fulfilled the law if idol worship was encouraged. And since you are claiming Jesus is God, there's a problem Jesus is lying by claiming the title "Son of Man". Son-Of-Man is NOT GOD. Daniels vision, and Number 23. Son-Of-Man is NOT GOD. That's not me saying it. That is scripture. Hopefully this brings the conversation back on track. It really doesn't matter one iota whether or not I think Jesus is the messiah. There's quite a few prophecies which are unfulfilled. These are important prophecies which indicate the end of days. Until they are fulfilled, it's silly to make any predictions about who is the messiah.

My position according to the scriptures is that

1. The scriptures teach that Jesus literally fulfilled and obeyed all Gods laws relating to him perfectly, fulfilling all righteousness and was sinless before God as our perfect substitute for sin needed to fulfill all righteousness as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world (see Isaiah 53:9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:16; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5; John 8:46) and
2. The scriptures also teach through the Levitical Priesthood, and all the earthly Sanctuary laws of atonement for sin, the purpose of Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and how he would die as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22; Colossians 2:16-17; compare also Genesis 22:1-18; with John 3:16; Exodus 12:1-14 with 1 Corinthians 5:7; Leviticus 16 with Hebrews 9:11-14; Isaiah 53 with 1 Peter 2:22-25; Psalms 22 with Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34; Jeremiah 31:31-34 with Luke 22:20 and Hebrews 8:10-12; Malachi 3:1 with Mark 1:1-4 and Luke 3:2-6 with John 1:29; 36).

As can be shown through the scriptures above it is not a hollow doctrine at all but a doctrine that is founded on scripture that you simply turn a blind eye to because it proves that all Jews born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey Gods Word have rejected Gods promised Messiah and are now the broken off branches of Romans 11 who have departed God and His Word through their unbelief and sin and that the very same God they claim to love and worship is the very same God that came to them but they rejected (see John 1:1-14)

I'm sorry, that's not what "Son-of-Man" means. Scripture absolutely defeats you here. I was being kind by using the book of Enoch, or perhaps Daniel's vision. This is what Son-Of-Man means in scripture. God is not a Son-Of-Man: Numbers 23:9 God is not a man, that he should lie; nor the son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Son-of-Man is a maggot: Job 25:6 How much less man, who is a worm? And the son of man, which is a maggot? Son-of-Man cannot be trusted: Psalms 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. So, someone comes along announcing themself as the Son-Of-Man, it is NOT the perfect sacrifice. At best it is an angel from the book of enoch. And if you read the book of enoch, you'll see that's precisely whom he was talking about. An angel who rescues the souls from hell on jubliee. Scripture specifically warns against the son-of-man.

Actually it is the scriptures that absolutely defeats you here but let me show why by adding the context back into the discussion again like we have already proven with Acts 15 in post # 38 linked. Lets look at the context you are leaving out again and why you are twisting scripture to try and make the scripture say things they never intended. I am assuming you made a mistake in the first scripture you quoted, it should be v19 not 9 right?

Numbers 23:19 [Heb] יט לֹא אִישׁ אֵל וִיכַזֵּב, וּבֶן-אָדָם וְיִתְנֶחָם; הַהוּא אָמַר וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה, וְדִבֶּר וְלֹא יְקִימֶנָּה.​

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Hebrew to English here with word meanings linked​

Lexicon Numbers 23:19​

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A few Parallel translations​

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Numbers 23:19 [KJV] 19, GOD IS NOT A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD REPENT: has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good?​

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Numbers 23:19 [NIV] 19, GOD IS NOT HUMAN, THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NOT A HUMAN BEING, THAT HE SHOULD CHANGE HIS MIND. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?​

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Numbers 23:19 [YLT] 19, GOD IS NOT A MAN AND LIES, AND A SON OF MAN AND REPENTS! Has He said -- and doth He not do it? And spoken -- and doth He not confirm it?​

NOTE: Go do some more homework. The meaning of these scriptures is simply God does not lie and God does not need repentance because he does not lie. The scripture context is to Balaam's conversation with Balak's request to curse Israel and God telling Balaam that he can only speak the words to Balak that God gives him (see Numbers 23:1-20) Note verse 20 Balaam is telling Balak that he has received commandment from the Lord to bless Israel and he cannot reverse it. So the scriptures states no where what you are trying to get it to say. Numbers 23:29 simply states God is not a liar and needs no repentance because of lies. This does not teach what you are teaching.

Job 25:6 [Heb] אַף, כִּי-אֱנוֹשׁ רִמָּה; וּבֶן-אָדָם, תּוֹלֵעָה.​

Hebrew to English here with word meanings linked​

Lexicon Job 25:6​

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Job 25:6 [KJV] 19, How much less man, that is a worm? and the SON OF MAN, WHICH IS A WORM?​

Job 25:6 [NIV] 19, HOW MUCH LESS A MORTAL, WHO IS BUT A MAGGOT— A HUMAN BEING, WHO IS ONLY A WORM!”​

Job 25:6 [YLT] 19, HOW MUCH LESS MAN -- A GRUB, AND THE SON OF MAN -- A WORM!​

NOTE: Go do some more homework. The context of this scripture is Job 25:1-6 which says;1, Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, 2, Dominion and fear are with him, he makes peace in his high places. 3, Is there any number of his armies? and on whom does not his light arise? 4, How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5, Behold even to the moon, and it shines not; yes, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6, How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? The meaning of these scriptures is simply a human being compared to God is nothing in greatness and in holiness. Once again This does not teach what you are teaching trying to draw parallels to Jesus as being the Son-of-man. As posted and shown through the scriptures already Jesus is God and Jesus came into our world to live a sinless life as a man to save us from our sins as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Psalms 146:3 [Heb] אַל-תִּבְטְחוּ בִנְדִיבִים-- בְּבֶן-אָדָם, שֶׁאֵין לוֹ תְשׁוּעָה.

Hebrew to English here with word meanings linked
Lexicon Job 25:6

Psalms 146:3 [KJV] 6, PUT NOT YOUR TRUST IN PRINCES, NOR IN THE SON OF MAN, IN WHOM THERE IS NO HELP.
Psalms 146:3 [NIV] 6, DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN PRINCES, IN HUMAN BEINGS, WHO CANNOT SAVE
Psalms 146:3 [YLT] 6, Trust not in princes -- in a son of man, For he hath no deliverance

NOTE: Go do some more homework. The context of this scripture is Psalms 146:1-10 which says; 1, Praise you the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. 2, While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises to my God while I have any being. 3,DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN PRINCES, IN HUMAN BEINGS, WHO CANNOT SAVE. 4, His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. 5, Happy is he that has the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God: 6, Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keeps truth for ever: 7, Which executes judgment for the oppressed: which gives food to the hungry. The LORD looses the prisoners: 8, The LORD opens the eyes of the blind: the LORD raises them that are bowed down: the LORD loves the righteous: 9, The LORD preserves the strangers; he relieves the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turns upside down. 10, The LORD shall reign for ever, even your God, O Zion, to all generations. Praise you the LORD. As shown above the meaning of Psalms 146:3 is that only God can save us mankind cannot save us. This once again does not disagree with anything that I have aleady shared with you. Once again this scripture does not teach what you are teaching trying to draw parallels to Jesus as being the Son-of-man as only mankind when he is God that became a man to save is from our sins. As posted and shown through the scriptures already Jesus is God and Jesus came into our world to live a sinless life as a man to save us from our sins as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Summary: Once the scripture contexts have been provided back into the discussion there is not a single scripture that you have posted that is in disagreement with anything I have already been sharing with you from the scriptures. As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, Jesus is both God and man. Jesus was in the beginning with God and is our creator who created all thing in heaven and earth (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus who is God became the "son of man" when he came into our world and was born as a man and lived as a man in order to be mans perfect sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world so that we through faith in His sacrifice and death can receive Gods forgiveness and atonement for our sins. Jesus claims to be both the "son of man" and the "son of God" (Matthew 8:29; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 16:16; Matthew 26:63 etc). If we are to worship God and Jesus is God then how is worshiping Jesus idol worship? Jesus is both Messiah, son of man, the son of God and God. This is the point you missed and how your last post was answered according to the scriptures. (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus is worshiped as God because He is God and Jesus is not worshiped as a man. Until you can see this you will always be one of those who were blessed and called by God but refused to receive Gods blessing because of your unbelief and rejection of Jesus as Gods promised Messiah who you are still waiting for.

continued...

 

[3rdAngel]

It's not true. It doesn't matter how many times you claim the name for yourself. It's still theft. Identity theft. It doesn't matter if someone wrote it in a book. If it's human, not a prophet, coming from an author who twists scripture, seeks loopholes, then it's not coming from God. If it's not coming from God, it's theft. Then you need God to present it to you, and no, you are not God, and the author of the epistles is not God. If you claim it for yourself, then you are claiming to be God. If the author of the epistles is claiming it for you, they they are claiming to be God. They are not God, you are not God. That's not true. God chooses, not you. So what? that does not make you into a God, does not give permission to steal someone else's name.
Romans is written by a man, a sinner, not a prophet. The book twists scripture, and seeks loopholes. I asked before, why do you trust it?

Your opinions are noted but sadly they are only your words and opinions in disagreement with Gods Words that you are arguing with. As posted earlier and shown from the scriptures the name "Israel" is simply a name given by God to all those who by faith choose to believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to the scriptures Gods true Israel are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says, but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9). The unbelieving Jews use to say to Jesus "We have Abraham for our father" Jesus would say to them if Abraham were your father you would do the works of Abraham. He said to the unbelieving Jews "you do the works of your father the devil" (see John 8:37-44). So to me and understanding the scriptures shared with you in the last post it seems silly to think that anyone can claim to be Gods poeple Israel if they do not believe and do what Gods Word says. This is why it is written in the scriptures, in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." No one therefore can make any claims to being Gods Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to the scriptures. You can choose to be unbelieving or believing it is up to you. I am sure you would be aware we all answer only to God come judgement day for the Word of God we accept or reject (see John 12:47-48).

God chooses, not you. Even if you are right, and you're not, you clearly do not know the law, so you are not capable of identifying who is or is not Israel.

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. I would go as far as saying it is you that clearly does not understand Gods laws and it is you that does not know who Gods true Israel is because you close your eyes to see and your ears to hearing Gods Word and have rejected Gods promised Messiah who the law points to in fulfillment of
Isaiah 6:9-10. God read it.

By the way "the word made flesh" is not the same as God's word.

I prefer what the scriptures say and the scriptures say in John 1:1-4; 14

• JOHN 1:1-4; 14 1, 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH

Please forgive me but I prefer what the scriptures teach and it is your words here that are in disagreement with Gods Word. Jesus is the living Word of God. As shown from the scriptures above there is nothing that you have posted dear friend that support your view to reject Gods promised Christ as the Messiah and Savior of the world in Jesus. You simply turn a blind eye in order to continue in your unbelief and sin.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

I notice you did not demonstrate knowledge of the law. why not? I asked you the order of the daily temple service by the levites. it's recited every single day across the globe. did you know that? didn't you say the law was given to you?

OK, here's a simple one. Lacking sacrifices there are 3 other methods for atonement. what are they? lacking a temple sacrifice the Jewish people have 3 other ways to atone for sin. Jesus is NOT needed. I repeat Jesus is not needed at all. Did you know that?

It's pretty easy to see the pretenders, because they steal the name Israel, and pretend to be someone they're not. "A wolf in sheep's clothing" Jacob was a shepard. They pretend to be one of Jacob's sheep. Then they pretend to know the law, but they cannot answer simple questions about it.

Sound familiar?

View attachment 82155

"Spiritual Israel" is a "A wolf in sheep's clothing"

As posted earlier in the post you ignored once more. The Christian bible includes the same Hebrew bible you have and includes all the words of the Messiah that comes from the promises given by God and His prophets in the Hebrew bible and Torah. If you feel it is biased against unbelieving Jews are wrong. It simply states how unbelieving Jews rejected God and His Word and now they departed God to continue in sin and unbelief. Lets get our facts right. Christianity was given to the world by believing Jews. Christianity came out of the Jewish religion. Jesus is the promised Messiah that came out of the Hebrew bible. I wish brother you could have your eyes opened to believe this and see your God who your people reject to this present day. Yes I am familiar with Torah laws. My bible is both the old and new testament scriptures which came from the Torah. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. I will not be giving you any lists of laws but happy to discuss any law with you because as mentioned earlier we are in the new covenant now not the old and all the Levitical Priesthood, and Sanctuary laws of atonement for Gods forgiveness of sins are now fulfilled and continued in the promised Messiah and Gods plan of salvation for all mankind in Jesus to who they all pointed to. For me the pretenders and thieves are the ones that are defined in the scriptures as all those who do not believe God and His Word but pretend they are Gods children when it is God himself that calls them of the devil. These are simply the broken branches or Romans 11 who have rejected Gods Word and have been broken off and are no longer a part of Gods true Israel. see Romans 11:13-26 and John 8:37-44. Therefore according to the scriptures, the true wolves and sheeps clothing are all those who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says.

Wolves in sheeps clothing do not believe and obey what Gods Word says.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

With all due respect what you are claiming here is nonsense, but let me show you why it is you who is dancing around the truth and avoiding the truth by simply adding the context back into the scriptures are quoting to try and support claims that gentile believers are not to follow God's law.

I will preface my response to you though by saying that we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant and for all of Gods people we no longer fall under the Levitical Priesthood, and the Sanctuary laws of atonement and animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision, and annual Feast days that are linked directly into these Sanctuary laws. These were all shadows of things to come pointing to Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and are now fulfilled and continued in Him (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27, Hebrews 10:1-22 and Colossians 2:16-17).

However Gods 10 commandments and other moral laws, and other dietary and health and hygiene laws are still a requirement for all believers of Gods Word in the new covenant (Matthew 5:17-19) and to break these laws when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods Word is sin according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Now lets add the context back in from the scriptures you posted to see if they agree with what you are claiming that Gentiles are not required to follow any of Gods laws. You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.Lets start with the context of Acts 15:1-2 which states what the problem is and what the Apostles are seeking clarification over.

ACTS 15:1:21​

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new gentile believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. This is the scripture context you disregard. The question was never over the question are gentile Christians now free to break every law written in Torah. The topic context is over the question "is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believer?" It was this question they were seeking to answer at Jerusalem.

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.​

NOTE: Remember as shown through the scriptures earlier, the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments or other laws. The scripture context tells us that Acts 15 is over the question is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers as shown in Acts 15:1-2).

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.​

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.​

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;​

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

​

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.​

[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?​

[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.​

NOTE: They came to the conclusion that salvation is not by being circumcised but by what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

​

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.​

If ACTS 15 was talking about Gods 10 Commandments or other laws of Torah then Paul's writings to the Corinthians gentile believers makes no sense at all where it is written...

​

1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.​

Back to Acts 15...

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.​

[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:​

[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.​

[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,​

[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:​

[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.​

[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:​

[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.​

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH DAY.​

​

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:​

[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, YOU MUST BE CIRCUMCISED AND KEEP THE LAW: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:​

[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,​

[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.​

[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​

[29], That you ABSTAIN FROM ANYTHING OFFERED TO IDOLS, AND FROM BLOOD, AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED, AND FROM FORNICATION: FROM WHICH IF YOU KEEP YOURSELVES, YOU SHALL DO WELL. Farewell.​

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter (Acts 15:1-2). v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is taught to them. When? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood (torah laws), and from things strangled, and from fornication. Context proves your claims here are in error.

Your response here...

complete irrelevance. the point is, there is a different law for Christians. This means, Christians are not Israel. If they were Israel, they would not have a different law To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorization and unsettled you, troubling your minds by what they said.c 25So we all agreed to choose men to send to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29 You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. The law was not given to you. You clearly don't know it.

I guess I hit a nerve with you in this post as your post is non-responsive repetition to the post you are posting against that has already addressed what you are re-posting. All you did is ignore the post and the scripture contexts provided in the post you are quoting from that proves that the scriptures you have provided do not support your view that Gentile believers do not have to obey Gods laws. As shown in the post you are quoting from the context you disregard is that Acts 15 was never over the question do gentiles have to keep Gods commandments or law it was always however over the question "Is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believes?" as proven in the context you disregard in Acts 15:1-2. The conclusion of the matter (Acts 15:1-2). v19-20 was "We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is taught to them. When? EVERY SABBATH (Acts 15:21). In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood (torah laws), and from things strangled, and from fornication. Context proves your claims here are in error.

Take Care.

 

[metis]

Therefore you are being inconsistent if you are trying to argue that love is an excuse to sin and break Gods law when the scriptures teach genuine love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods law from the heart.

I have made no such claim, so why did you post this?

Within Judaism it's common knowledge that all 613 Commandments have a purpose to make us more loving to God and to all, and this is also what Jesus was and is about.

Finally, it is completely unethical for you to put words into my mouth or anyone else's mouth. If this were to continue as your m.o., then I'd rather have such discussions with those who actually live Jesus' teachings versus just talking-the-talk.

 

[3rdAngel]

metis said: Again and again, Jesus' Two Commandants of love covers all 613, including the Decalogue, thus I'm not being inconsistent.

Response to your post here..

Love to God and man is not separate from obedience to Gods law according to the scriptures. Love is expressed through obeying Gods law from the heart. This is what the Gods new covenant promise is about and true circumcision of the heart through the Spirit and not of the flesh (see Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 Corinthians 7:18). That is why Jesus when quoting from two great commandments of love to God and man from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 in Matthew 22:36-40 ends by saying "On these two great commandments (of love to God and man) hang (are attached) all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40). Paul also agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 where he states that loving our neighbor as our self is simply summarizing obedience to Gods law. Therefore love is expressed through obedience to Gods 10 commandments from the heart. (see also James 2:8-12). Therefore you are being inconsistent if you are trying to argue that love is an excuse to sin and break Gods law when the scriptures teach genuine love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods law from the heart.

You posted

I have made no such claim, so why did you post this?

Are you not trying to argue that love is separate from obedience to Gods law? They are not separate they summarize how Gods law is obeyed from the heart and is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 "On these two commandments (of love to God and man) hang all the law and the prophets" You are best not to micro-quote me and read everything posted to you.

it's common knowledge that all 613 Commandments have a purpose to make us more loving to God and to all, and this is also what Jesus was and is about.

Really? Do you still do animal sacrifices every time you sin? Practice Yom Kippur? Are you circumcised? Attend the yearly feast days and Passover? How are the Levitical and because they are prophetic "shadow laws" of things to come in the new covenant, now fulfilled and continued in Jesus to who they all point to.

Finally, it is completely unethical for you to put words into my mouth or anyone else's mouth. If this were to continue as your m.o., then I'd rather have such discussions with those who actually live Jesus' teachings versus just talking-the-talk.

No one put words in your mouth. I just responded to what you have been posting. If I have misunderstood anything you have said please accept my apologies and please feel free to clarify yourself. I speak to many professing the name of Jesus who try and argue that love to God and man is some new commandments and separate from Gods requirements for obedience to His laws. Love is not separate from Gods law. Neither does it negate the need to obey His laws. Love is how we are to obey Gods law in the new covenant (from the inside out; from the heart). Jesus when quoting the two great commandments of love to God and man in Matthew 22:36-40 is actually quoting from torah in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Love is expressed through obedience to Gods law from the heart. This is Gods new covenant promise to all those who have been born again in the Spirit to love. See Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding.

Take Care.

 

[dybmh]

Your opinions are noted but sadly they are only your words and opinions in disagreement with Gods Words that you are arguing with

You are not bringing God's words. At best it is a mix of fact and fiction.

You clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.

The scriptures teach that Jesus literally fulfilled and obeyed all Gods laws relating to him perfectly,

You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.

The Christian bible includes the same Hebrew bible you have and includes all the words of the Messiah that comes from the promises given by God and His prophets in the Hebrew bible and Torah.

You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.

Do you still do animal sacrifices every time you sin?

They are still kept. Ignorance + Arrogance...

I guess I hit a nerve with you in this post as your post is non-responsive repetition

Since you cropped out the scripture which proves that there is a different law for Christians, yes, it needed to be repeated.

None the less. The Jewish New Year is here, basically. I resolve not to argue with those who claim to be in Christ, but yet feel possessed to steal the name Israel, as if Christ is not enough for them. If thay claim to be Christian, but are not saticfied with this and still need more, something is wrong, something is desperately wrong. If they cannot see the error in this, if they cannot discern fact from fiction, I think, it's best to ignore them.

I am adding you to my ignore list. May you speedily recover from whatever ails you.

 

[3rdAngel]

You are not bringing God's words. At best it is a mix of fact and fiction.

You clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



They are still kept. Ignorance + Arrogance...



Since you cropped out the scripture which proves that there is a different law for Christians, yes, it needed to be repeated.

None the less. The Jewish New Year is here, basically. I resolve not to argue with those who claim to be in Christ, but yet feel possessed to steal the name Israel, as if Christ is not enough for them. If thay claim to be Christian, but are not saticfied with this and still need more, something is wrong, something is desperately wrong. If they cannot see the error in this, if they cannot discern fact from fiction, I think, it's best to ignore them.

I am adding you to my ignore list. May you speedily recover from whatever ails you.

Its ok I did not expect you would respond to my post content and scripture context that are in disagreement with you and expected you to just repeat yourself while ignoring everything posted to you that is in disagreement with you. I was only responding to you in case it might be helpful to anyone following the discussion to help them to see what you post is not truthful. Once again there is nothing you have posted here or elsewhere once scripture context has been added back into the conversation that supports anything you have posted, so it might be best for us to agree to disagree. I will leave you to your sins and unbelief and your animal sacrifices and sin offerings, and your life in the Old covenant scriptures. Sadly for you and every other unbelieving Jew that has rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah that all these old covenant laws of atonement were pointing to, has already arrived. To bad you have chosen to close your eyes and ears to this in fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10. Thanks for the conversation though. It was interesting. May God open your eyes and ears to seeing and hearing His Words. According to the scriptures ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear. The words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48). I hope and pray that you do not find out only too late what you have missed out on. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Since you cropped out the scripture which proves that there is a different law for Christians, yes, it needed to be repeated.

This part of your post only proves you are not reading my posts or lying and not telling the truth. I am not sure which one is true in your case. Is bearing false witness or lying against your neighbour a sin in your eyes Exodus 20:16? I did not crop out anything in regards to Acts 15 but simply provided all the scripture context you ignored that was in disagreement with you from Acts 15:1-29. It is there for all to see in post # 38 linked proving your claims here are untruthful.

Take care.

 

[metis]

Really? Do you still do animal sacrifices every time you sin? Practice Yom Kippur? Are you circumcised? Attend the yearly feast days and Passover? How are the Levitical and because they are prophetic "shadow laws" of things to come in the new covenant, now fulfilled and continued in Jesus to who they all point to.

I had put you on "ignore" before and now I remember why. I already have clearly stated more than once that following Jesus' Two Commandments covers the entire [Jewish] Law, thus it's unnecessary to obey every jot & tittle of the Law as "Love one another" covers it all.

bye

 

[metis]

You are not bringing God's words. At best it is a mix of fact and fiction.

You clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



You wouldn't know if this is true or not, because you clearly do not know the law, and you do not seem to have the integrity to admit it.



They are still kept. Ignorance + Arrogance...



Since you cropped out the scripture which proves that there is a different law for Christians, yes, it needed to be repeated.

None the less. The Jewish New Year is here, basically. I resolve not to argue with those who claim to be in Christ, but yet feel possessed to steal the name Israel, as if Christ is not enough for them. If thay claim to be Christian, but are not saticfied with this and still need more, something is wrong, something is desperately wrong. If they cannot see the error in this, if they cannot discern fact from fiction, I think, it's best to ignore them.

I am adding you to my ignore list. May you speedily recover from whatever ails you.

I certainly can't blame you for putting her on your ignore list as she has done much the same with me presently and in the past.

Take care and enjoy the New Year.

 

[Elihoenai]

Many Sunday worshipping groups think that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites with the 10 commandments at Sinai.
This is not true…its was actually first spoken to them when God caused the manna to fall on the ground in the desert in Exodus Chapter 16.
Here is the important part of the narrative…

• So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat. 16This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Each one is to gather as much as he needs. You may take an omerc for each person in your tent.’ ”
• 17So the Israelites did this. Some gathered more, and some less. 18When they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little had no shortfall.d Each one gathered as much as he needed to eat.
• 19Then Moses said to them, “No one may keep any of it until morning.” 20But they did not listen to Moses; some people left part of it until morning, and it became infested with maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them.
• 21Every morning each one gathered as much as was needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
• The Sabbath Observed
• (Genesis 2:1–3; Hebrews 4:1–11)
• 22On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much food—two omers per persone —and all the leaders of the congregation came and reported this to Moses. 23He told them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Then set aside whatever remains and keep it until morning.’ ”
• 24So they set it aside until morning as Moses had commanded, and it did not smell or contain any maggots. 25“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. Today you will not find anything in the field. 26For six days you may gather, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, it will not be there.”
• 27Yet on the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they did not find anything. 28Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep My commandments and instructions? 29Understand that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day He will give you bread for two days. On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place.”

As in the creation accont, the sabbath predates the giving of the law…it ties the two parts of the covenant (Gods eternal moral law) together. Christ called Himself Lord of the Sabbath, indeed he is even known as the Sabbath in the New Testament and this highlights that the Sabbath is directly tied to Salvation. Like the Israelites in the desert, those who did not believe and gather a double portion of manna on the Friday went hungry on the Sabbath.
Christ says He is the bread of life…that is a direct reference (fulfillment actually) to the lesson of the manna given to the Israelites in the desert, and to their salvation.
Modern Christians are often referred to as Spiritual Israel…what was applicable to the Israelites is applicable to modern Christians when they are given Gods laws and should they wish to be saved.

Exodus 16:29

29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Luke 4:16

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.


How do you Reconcile Exodus 16:29 and Luke 4:16? In Exodus the Command is to Not Leave your place on the Sabbath Day. Given that you Must Not Leave your place on the Sabbath Day, how can you attend Church/Synagogue without Violating the Command?

 

[3rdAngel]

Exodus 16:29
29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Luke 4:16
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

How do you Reconcile Exodus 16:29 and Luke 4:16? In Exodus the Command is to Not Leave your place on the Sabbath Day. Given that you Must Not Leave your place on the Sabbath Day, how can you attend Church/Synagogue without Violating the Command?

Yep the answer is in the scripture context that was disregarded in the OP. The reference to staying home was in context to going out and collecting more manna on the Sabbath (working) when that was to be done the day before on the preparation day before the Sabbath. The scripture does not teach anywhere that Gods people are not to leave the house on the Sabbath for going to Church or spending time with God in nature for example. The rest of the bible pretty much teaches that it is ok to go out and worship God in Church and nature.. Jesus and the Apostles all did the same all through the scriptures as well as Gods people all through the old and new testament scriptures.

 

[3rdAngel]

I had put you on "ignore" before and now I remember why. I already have clearly stated more than once that following Jesus' Two Commandments covers the entire [Jewish] Law, thus it's unnecessary to obey every jot & tittle of the Law as "Love one another" covers it all.

bye

As posted earlierm, Love to God and man is not separate from obedience to Gods law according to the scriptures. Love is expressed through obeying Gods law from the heart. This is what the Gods new covenant promise is about and true circumcision of the heart through the Spirit and not of the flesh (see Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 Corinthians 7:18). That is why Jesus when quoting from two great commandments of love to God and man from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 in Matthew 22:36-40 ends by saying "On these two great commandments (of love to God and man) hang (are attached) all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40). Paul also agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 where he states that loving our neighbor as our self is simply summarizing obedience to Gods law. Therefore love is expressed through obedience to Gods 10 commandments from the heart. (see also James 2:8-12). Therefore you are being inconsistent if you are trying to argue that love is an excuse to sin and break Gods law when the scriptures teach genuine love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods law from the heart.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

I certainly can't blame you for putting her on your ignore list as she has done much the same with me presently and in the past.

Take care and enjoy the New Year.

Yes indeed.. many choose to close their eyes and ears to seeing and hearing Gods Word according to the scriptures in fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10 where it is written "Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed." According to Jesus there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day. Sadly it will be too late for many who had the chance to see and believe Gods Word but choose not to.

Take Care.

 

[Ebionite]

Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).

None of those verses mention fulfilment.

Matthew 5​
18	For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Fulfillment is related to unjustified hatred:

John 15​
23	He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24	If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25	But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26	But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

There are three Psalms of David that mention unjustified hatred. Psalm 22 and 69 are about the crucified twin, Psalm 35 is about the Messiah, and Psalm 109 is about Paul. The numbers 22 and 69 suggest twinship - the two two's of 22 and the rotational symmetry of 6 and 9.

Psalms 35​
19	Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: [neither] let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

Psalms 69​
4	They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away.

Psalms 109​
3	They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

Acts connects Judas Iscariot to Psalm 69 and Psalm 109.

Acts 1​
16	Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

20	For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Psalms 69​
25	Let their habitation be desolate; [and] let none dwell in their tents.

Psalms 109​
8	Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.

One of David's roles was as a witness:

Isaiah 55​
3	Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
4	Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

https://hosea6.tech/pages/twin.html#s15

 

[3rdAngel]

Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).

Your response here...

None of those verses mention fulfilment.

Matthew 5​
18	For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Fulfillment is related to unjustified hatred:

John 15​
23	He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24	If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25	But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26	But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

There are three Psalms of David that mention unjustified hatred. Psalm 22 and 69 are about the crucified twin, Psalm 35 is about the Messiah, and Psalm 109 is about Paul. The numbers 22 and 69 suggest twinship - the two two's of 22 and the rotational symmetry of 6 and 9.

Psalms 35​
19	Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: [neither] let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

Psalms 69​
4	They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away.

Psalms 109​
3	They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

Acts connects Judas Iscariot to Psalm 69 and Psalm 109.

Acts 1​
16	Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

20	For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Psalms 69​
25	Let their habitation be desolate; [and] let none dwell in their tents.

Psalms 109​
8	Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.

One of David's roles was as a witness:

Isaiah 55​
3	Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
4	Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

https://hosea6.tech/pages/twin.html#s15

Your post makes no sense to what you are quoting from

 

[Elihoenai]

Yep the answer is in the scripture context that was disregarded in the OP. The reference to staying home was in context to going out and collecting more manna on the Sabbath (working) when that was to be done the day before on the preparation day before the Sabbath. The scripture does not teach anywhere that Gods people are not to leave the house on the Sabbath for going to Church or spending time with God in nature for example. The rest of the bible pretty much teaches that it is ok to go out and worship God in Church and nature.. Jesus and the Apostles all did the same all through the scriptures as well as Gods people all through the old and new testament scriptures.

Good Answer. Therefore, Exodus 16:29 Commands that you Must Not go out to work on the Sabbath Day.