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Exodus 16...Sabbath is tied to manna...it predates the 10 commandments

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
Many Sunday worshipping groups think that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites with the 10 commandments at Sinai.
This is not true…its was actually first spoken to them when God caused the manna to fall on the ground in the desert in Exodus Chapter 16.
Here is the important part of the narrative…
  • So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat. 16This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Each one is to gather as much as he needs. You may take an omerc for each person in your tent.’ ”
  • 17So the Israelites did this. Some gathered more, and some less. 18When they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little had no shortfall.d Each one gathered as much as he needed to eat.
  • 19Then Moses said to them, “No one may keep any of it until morning.” 20But they did not listen to Moses; some people left part of it until morning, and it became infested with maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them.
  • 21Every morning each one gathered as much as was needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
  • The Sabbath Observed
  • (Genesis 2:1–3; Hebrews 4:1–11)
  • 22On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much food—two omers per persone —and all the leaders of the congregation came and reported this to Moses. 23He told them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Then set aside whatever remains and keep it until morning.’ ”
  • 24So they set it aside until morning as Moses had commanded, and it did not smell or contain any maggots. 25“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. Today you will not find anything in the field. 26For six days you may gather, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, it will not be there.”
  • 27Yet on the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they did not find anything. 28Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep My commandments and instructions? 29Understand that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day He will give you bread for two days. On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place.”
As in the creation accont, the sabbath predates the giving of the law…it ties the two parts of the covenant (Gods eternal moral law) together. Christ called Himself Lord of the Sabbath, indeed he is even known as the Sabbath in the New Testament and this highlights that the Sabbath is directly tied to Salvation. Like the Israelites in the desert, those who did not believe and gather a double portion of manna on the Friday went hungry on the Sabbath.
Christ says He is the bread of life…that is a direct reference (fulfillment actually) to the lesson of the manna given to the Israelites in the desert, and to their salvation.
Modern Christians are often referred to as Spiritual Israel…what was applicable to the Israelites is applicable to modern Christians when they are given Gods laws and should they wish to be saved.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Many Sunday worshipping groups think that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites with the 10 commandments at Sinai.
This is not true…its was actually first spoken to them when God caused the manna to fall on the ground in the desert in Exodus Chapter 16.
Here is the important part of the narrative…
  • So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat. 16This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Each one is to gather as much as he needs. You may take an omerc for each person in your tent.’ ”
  • 17So the Israelites did this. Some gathered more, and some less. 18When they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little had no shortfall.d Each one gathered as much as he needed to eat.
  • 19Then Moses said to them, “No one may keep any of it until morning.” 20But they did not listen to Moses; some people left part of it until morning, and it became infested with maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them.
  • 21Every morning each one gathered as much as was needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
  • The Sabbath Observed
  • (Genesis 2:1–3; Hebrews 4:1–11)
  • 22On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much food—two omers per persone —and all the leaders of the congregation came and reported this to Moses. 23He told them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Then set aside whatever remains and keep it until morning.’ ”
  • 24So they set it aside until morning as Moses had commanded, and it did not smell or contain any maggots. 25“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. Today you will not find anything in the field. 26For six days you may gather, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, it will not be there.”
  • 27Yet on the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they did not find anything. 28Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep My commandments and instructions? 29Understand that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day He will give you bread for two days. On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place.”
As in the creation accont, the sabbath predates the giving of the law…it ties the two parts of the covenant (Gods eternal moral law) together. Christ called Himself Lord of the Sabbath, indeed he is even known as the Sabbath in the New Testament and this highlights that the Sabbath is directly tied to Salvation. Like the Israelites in the desert, those who did not believe and gather a double portion of manna on the Friday went hungry on the Sabbath.
Christ says He is the bread of life…that is a direct reference (fulfillment actually) to the lesson of the manna given to the Israelites in the desert, and to their salvation.
Modern Christians are often referred to as Spiritual Israel…what was applicable to the Israelites is applicable to modern Christians when they are given Gods laws and should they wish to be saved.
You are correct. The instance of the Israelites not gathering manna on the sabbath is the first instance of the commandment, which is before the ten commandments.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's possible that all the law predates the mt. sinai event: Genesis 26:4-5: The Lord appears to Isaac and says:

And I will make your seed multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give to your seed all these countries; and in your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;​
Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.​

my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

Mitzvosai, Hukosai, V'Torosai

My Mitzvahs, My Hukim, My Torah

That's the whole enchilada, including the sabbath. Abraham kept the sabbath.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It's possible that all the law predates the mt. sinai event: Genesis 26:4-5: The Lord appears to Isaac and says:

And I will make your seed multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give to your seed all these countries; and in your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;​
Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.​

my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

Mitzvosai, Hukosai, V'Torosai

My Mitzvahs, My Hukim, My Torah

That's the whole enchilada, including the sabbath. Abraham kept the sabbath.
a·nach·ro·nism
/əˈnakrəˌnizəm/
noun
a thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned.
"everything was as it would have appeared in centuries past apart from one anachronism, a bright yellow construction crane"
an act of attributing a custom, event, or object to a period to which it does not belong.
"it is anachronism to suppose that the official morality of the age was mere window dressing"
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
a·nach·ro·nism
/əˈnakrəˌnizəm/
noun
a thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned.
"everything was as it would have appeared in centuries past apart from one anachronism, a bright yellow construction crane"
an act of attributing a custom, event, or object to a period to which it does not belong.
"it is anachronism to suppose that the official morality of the age was mere window dressing"

irrelevant - noun. A comment which is completely unrelated to what is being discussed.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

A very similar statement exists in Deuteronomy showing that these three do indeed imply the entire law.

Deuteronomy 8:11:
Beware that you forget not the Lord your God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command you this day.​

my commandments, my statutes, and my laws = the whole law
his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes = the whole law
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
irrelevant - noun. A comment which is completely unrelated to what is being discussed.
I'm saying that the remark in the Torah about Isaac keeping all the commandments is an anachronism, an idea from a later time in history that the author from that later time improperly inserted into a story of something that happened earlier.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Many Sunday worshipping groups think that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites with the 10 commandments at Sinai.
This is not true…its was actually first spoken to them when God caused the manna to fall on the ground in the desert in Exodus Chapter 16.
Here is the important part of the narrative…
  • So Moses told them, “It is the bread that the LORD has given you to eat. 16This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Each one is to gather as much as he needs. You may take an omerc for each person in your tent.’ ”
  • 17So the Israelites did this. Some gathered more, and some less. 18When they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little had no shortfall.d Each one gathered as much as he needed to eat.
  • 19Then Moses said to them, “No one may keep any of it until morning.” 20But they did not listen to Moses; some people left part of it until morning, and it became infested with maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them.
  • 21Every morning each one gathered as much as was needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
  • The Sabbath Observed
  • (Genesis 2:1–3; Hebrews 4:1–11)
  • 22On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much food—two omers per persone —and all the leaders of the congregation came and reported this to Moses. 23He told them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Then set aside whatever remains and keep it until morning.’ ”
  • 24So they set it aside until morning as Moses had commanded, and it did not smell or contain any maggots. 25“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. Today you will not find anything in the field. 26For six days you may gather, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, it will not be there.”
  • 27Yet on the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they did not find anything. 28Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep My commandments and instructions? 29Understand that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day He will give you bread for two days. On the seventh day, everyone must stay where he is; no one may leave his place.”
As in the creation accont, the sabbath predates the giving of the law…it ties the two parts of the covenant (Gods eternal moral law) together. Christ called Himself Lord of the Sabbath, indeed he is even known as the Sabbath in the New Testament and this highlights that the Sabbath is directly tied to Salvation. Like the Israelites in the desert, those who did not believe and gather a double portion of manna on the Friday went hungry on the Sabbath.
Christ says He is the bread of life…that is a direct reference (fulfillment actually) to the lesson of the manna given to the Israelites in the desert, and to their salvation.
Modern Christians are often referred to as Spiritual Israel…what was applicable to the Israelites is applicable to modern Christians when they are given Gods laws and should they wish to be saved.
Thanks, I agree that the Sabbath predates Sinai as do all of Gods laws as proven in Genesis 26:5 and elsewhere. The only biblical definition of Sabbath (noun - descriptor שַׁבָּת (shabbâth | H7676) in the bible though is "every seventh day of the week" (see Exodus 20:10) which links back to the creation week of Genesis 2:1-3 that God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Now while it is true that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath there is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is the Sabbath and that the Sabbath has any ties to salvation accept in its obligation to be obeyed, being one of Gods 10 commandments that shows us our duty of love to God and to knowingly break it according to the scriptures is sin (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).

Think about it. Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made on the seventh day of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3. The reason why the Sabbath is not directly linked into salvation accept as a requirement to obey like all of Gods laws is because when the Sabbath was made for mankind on the "seventh day" of the creation week mankind was sinless. It was made for mankind before mankind had sinned so cannot be a shadow law of anything as all of Gods shadow law linked to salvation were only ever given to mankind after the fall of mankind and were written in the Mosaic book of the law (not the tables of stone, spoken, written and given by God alone.

Furthermore, look also at the commandment of Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath commandments tells us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" v8 while defining the Sabbath as the seventh day of the week in v10. This commandment is a memorial pointing backwards to Genesis 2:1-3 as a memorial of creation and God as the creator of all things in heaven and earth.

Therefore unlike the ceremonial sabbaths linked into the old covenant laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings and annual feast days that were shadows of things to come (Colossians 2:14-17), pointing to the future of Gods plan of salvation for mankind in the coming of the promised Messiah, Gods weekly seventh day creation Sabbath of Gods 10 commandments, only points backwards to God as the creator of heaven and earth and is not a shadow of anything and is just as much a requirement and standard for Christian living as is not stealing, committing adultery and using Gods name in vain (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4).

Take Care.

PS..
I have spent a lot of time studying Colossians 2 and Hebrews 3-4 in detail linking everything back into Torah which the writer is quoting from. Happy to discuss them. They do not teach what mainstream Christianity teaches when linked back to the Torah. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm saying that the remark in the Torah about Isaac keeping all the commandments is an anachronism, an idea from a later time in history that the author from that later time improperly inserted into a story of something that happened earlier.

It doesn't say that. "Isaac keeping all the commandments".

Your opinions about the Torah's composition are not the topic of this thread. That's why it is irrelevant.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I agree that the Sabbath predates Sinai as do all of Gods laws as proven in Genesis 26:5 and elsewhere

Bingo! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: In Gen 26:5 and elsewhere

Perhaps you already know, but, the great Jewish commentators the Rashi and Ramban agree with you. Commenting on 26:5 Rashi writes:

ותורתי [V'Torohsai] AND MY LAWS — The plural serves to include with the written Law also the Oral Law which prescribes commands that are an ancient institution given by God to Moses from Sinai.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Just a reminder that there are 613 Commandments in Torah, not just 10.

Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
Now while it is true that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath there is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is the Sabbath and that the Sabbath has any ties to salvation accept in its obligation to be obeyed
Actually that isnt true...there are texts for this...here are some that support this claim:

(note Hebrews 4:1 in the list below...which was written 25-30 years after Christ)

Isaiah 57:2 Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death.

Hebreww 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.

luke 24:26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

Psalms 95:11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Hebrews 4:5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?

I believe that to say that the Sabbath is Christ's rest, and given He is Lord of the Sabbath, Christ is the Sabbath simply because it is an institution He created for the purposes of communion with God. Revelation 14:12 tells us that there are two qualities of the Patience of the Saints; those who keep the commandments of God and those who have the faith of Jesus
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).

Have you read the list? I ask because this idea of fulfillment and pointing to Christ seems to be empty words with very little meaning when the 613 are actually read.

And there's a rather large problem:
322. Not to lead the children of Israel astray to idolatry (Ex. 23:13) (CCN14).​

Matthew 14: Jesus permits people to worship him, does not correct them encouraging idol worship.
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.​
27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”​
28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”​
29 “Come,” he said.​
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”​
31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”​
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
"Truly you are the Son of God" + worship = idol worship.

John 9: Jesus identfies himself as "Son-of-Man". Son-Of-Man is an angel described in the book of enoch. The book of enoch was well known in that time and place. Certainly Jesus would have known this. Identifying as Son-Of-Man and accepting worship is encouraging worshipping an angel. That is idol worship. Even if Son-Of-Man from enoch is ignored, and is instead considered as a reference to the vision of Daniel, Son-Of-Man is not God. Accepting worship as the one who is "like a Son-Of-Man" per Daniel is still encouraging idol worship.
35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”​
36 “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”​
37 Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”​
38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.​
The solution to this and many other problems is not to consider any of this literally. They didn't literally worship Jesus. And Jesus would not have literally allowed it without correction. And. Jesus did not literally fulfill the commandments, and the commandments do not literally 'point' to Christ.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Have you read the list? I ask because this idea of fulfillment and pointing to Christ seems to be empty words with very little meaning when the 613 are actually read.

And there's a rather large problem:
322. Not to lead the children of Israel astray to idolatry (Ex. 23:13) (CCN14).​

Matthew 14: Jesus permits people to worship him, does not correct them encouraging idol worship.
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.​
27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”​
28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”​
29 “Come,” he said.​
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”​
31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”​
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
"Truly you are the Son of God" + worship = idol worship.

John 9: Jesus identfies himself as "Son-of-Man". Son-Of-Man is an angel described in the book of enoch. The book of enoch was well known in that time and place. Certainly Jesus would have known this. Identifying as Son-Of-Man and accepting worship is encouraging worshipping an angel. That is idol worship. Even if Son-Of-Man from enoch is ignored, and is instead considered as a reference to the vision of Daniel, Son-Of-Man is not God. Accepting worship as the one who is "like a Son-Of-Man" per Daniel is still encouraging idol worship.
35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”​
36 “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”​
37 Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”​
38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.​
The solution to this and many other problems is not to consider any of this literally. They didn't literally worship Jesus. And Jesus would not have literally allowed it without correction. And. Jesus did not literally fulfill the commandments, and the commandments do not literally 'point' to Christ.
Yes I have read the list.. and no there is no problem if you understand the scriptures. There is a reason we no longer follow the laws of atonement of animal sacrifices and sin offerings as well as all the Sanctuary laws, laws of circumcision, and annual feast days that are all linked into these laws. This is what I am referring to.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Yes I have read the list.. and no there is no problem if you understand the scriptures.

Did Jesus identify as Son-Of-Man and literally permit worship of him?
Did Jesus walk on water and allow people to call him truly/literally the Son of God then worship him?

It doesn't matter if Jesus is God, this encourages idol worship which is a BIG problem.
If Jesus isn't God, it's still a big problem.

I'm not sure how that is ignored or avoided without making these stories non-literal.

There is a reason we no longer follow the laws of atonement of animal sacrifices and sin offerings as well as all the Sanctuary laws, laws of circumcision, and annual feast days that are all linked into these laws. This is what I am referring to.

Are you Jewish? Literally? not grafted onto Judaism, not "spiritual Israel" but your Mother is Jewish, and her Mother is Jewish? If not, the reason you and other Christians are not following the law doesn't really matter, because, you were never commanded to do so.

I refer you to Acts 15. It's clear there is a different law for people who are not Jewish.

So, like I said, this whole fulfillment / pointing idea... it's kind of hollow. All a christian need to do is follow Jesus' commandments + Acts 15. But that doesn't invalidate the 613 for Jewish people.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I agree that the Sabbath predates Sinai as do all of Gods laws as proven in Genesis 26:5 and elsewhere. The only biblical definition of Sabbath (noun - descriptor שַׁבָּת (shabbâth | H7676) in the bible though is "every seventh day of the week" (see Exodus 20:10) which links back to the creation week of Genesis 2:1-3 that God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Now while it is true that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath there is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is the Sabbath and that the Sabbath has any ties to salvation accept in its obligation to be obeyed, being one of Gods 10 commandments that shows us our duty of love to God and to knowingly break it according to the scriptures is sin (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).

Think about it. Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made on the seventh day of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3. The reason why the Sabbath is not directly linked into salvation accept as a requirement to obey like all of Gods laws is because when the Sabbath was made for mankind on the "seventh day" of the creation week mankind was sinless. It was made for mankind before mankind had sinned so cannot be a shadow law of anything as all of Gods shadow law linked to salvation were only ever given to mankind after the fall of mankind and were written in the Mosaic book of the law (not the tables of stone, spoken, written and given by God alone.

Furthermore, look also at the commandment of Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath commandments tells us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" v8 while defining the Sabbath as the seventh day of the week in v10. This commandment is a memorial pointing backwards to Genesis 2:1-3 as a memorial of creation and God as the creator of all things in heaven and earth.

Therefore unlike the ceremonial sabbaths linked into the old covenant laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings and annual feast days that were shadows of things to come (Colossians 2:14-17), pointing to the future of Gods plan of salvation for mankind in the coming of the promised Messiah, Gods weekly seventh day creation Sabbath of Gods 10 commandments, only points backwards to God as the creator of heaven and earth and is not a shadow of anything and is just as much a requirement and standard for Christian living as is not stealing, committing adultery and using Gods name in vain (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4).

Take Care.

PS..
I have spent a lot of time studying Colossians 2 and Hebrews 3-4 in detail linking everything back into Torah which the writer is quoting from. Happy to discuss them. They do not teach what mainstream Christianity teaches when linked back to the Torah. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school.
Your response here...
Actually that isnt true...there are texts for this...here are some that support this claim:

(note Hebrews 4:1 in the list below...which was written 25-30 years after Christ)

Isaiah 57:2 Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death.

Hebreww 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.

luke 24:26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

Psalms 95:11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Hebrews 4:5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?

I believe that to say that the Sabbath is Christ's rest, and given He is Lord of the Sabbath, Christ is the Sabbath simply because it is an institution He created for the purposes of communion with God. Revelation 14:12 tells us that there are two qualities of the Patience of the Saints; those who keep the commandments of God and those who have the faith of Jesus
Actually what you are responding to is 100% true that Jesus is not the Sabbath as already shown in the rest of the post you did not respond to. There is also nothing in the few scriptures you have provided taken out of context that supports Jesus is a Sabbath but lets show why by adding all the scripture context back.

Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is a warning to us that we should not harden our hearts in unbelief and sin or God will forsake us *see Hebrews 3:12-13; 14; 17-19; Hebrew 4:1-2;6; 11. Here let's look at the scriptures in detail here and not try and read into the scriptures what that the scriptures are not saying or teaching. I might have to make this into two posts to show all the contexts. If you are serious and want to know the truth of Gods Word take your time to read what is being shared with you and see if I am sharing the truth of Gods Word or not. Lets start in this post with the preceding contexts of Hebrews 3.

GOD'S WARNINGS AGAINST SIN AND UNBELIEF AND BREAKING THE SABBATH HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4

Let's look at the scriptures in detail...
  • Hebrews 3:8-19 8, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION, IN THE DAY OF TEMPTATION IN THE WILDERNESS: 9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10, Why I WAS GRIEVED WITH THAT GENERATION, AND SAID, THEY DO ALWAYS ERR IN THEIR HEART; AND THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN MY WAYS. 11, SO I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST. 12, TAKE HEED, BROTHERS, LEST THERE BE IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, IN DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD. 13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; LEST ANY OF YOU BE HARDENED THROUGH THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN. 14, For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END; 15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, as in the provocation. 16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17, BUT WITH WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, WHOSE CARCASSES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? 18, And to whom swore he THAT THEY SHOULD NOT ENTER INTO HIS REST, BUT TO THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT? 19, So we see that they COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
KEY POINTS FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE..
  • Hebrews 3:8 A warning not to harden our hearts to God's Word
  • Hebrews 3:9-10 Those in the wilderness tempted God 40 years and did not obey him or his ways
  • Hebrews 3:11 God swore they would not enter into "His Rest" (Genesis 2:1-3; see Ezekiel 20:10-13)
  • Hebrews 3:12 Another warning not to harden our hearts in unbelief departing from God
  • Hebrews 3:13 Encourage one and other lest we harden our hearts in sin (breaking Gods' law 1 John 3:4)
  • Hebrews 3:14 We are only partakers of Christ "IF" we hold the the faith steadfast to the end
  • Hebrews 3:15-17 More warnings not to harden our hearts as those who sinned died in the wilderness
  • Hebrews 3:18-19 God did not let them enter into "His rest" because they were in unbelief
Note: Hebrews 3 and it's link to Ezekiel 20:10-13 how God's people were breaking "His Sabbath" and God poured out his judgements on them...
  • Ezekiel 20:10-13 [10], Why I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt and BROUGHT THEM INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11], and I GAVE THEM MY STATUTES, AND SHOWED THEM MY JUDGMENTS, WHICH IF A MAN DO, HE SHALL LIVE IN THEM. [12], MOREOVER ALSO I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THEM THAT THEY MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM. [13], BUT THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL REBELLED AGAINST ME IN THE WILDERNESS: THEY WALKED NOT IN MY STATUTES AND DESPISED MY JUDGMENTS WHICH IF A MAN DO THEY SHALL LIVE IN THEM AND MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: THEN I SAID I WOULD POUR OUT MY FURY ON THEM IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.
Note: Hebrews 3 and it's links to Psalms 95:2-11 and Ezekiel 20:10-13 which is also over worshiping God as the God of creation and the Sabbath commandment and not entering God's rest (the seventh day created from the foundation of the world)...
  • PSALMS 95:2-11 [2], Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise to him with psalms. [3], For THE LORD IS A GREAT GOD, AND A GREAT KING ABOVE ALL GODS. [4], In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also. [5], THE SEA IS HIS, AND HE MADE IT: AND HIS HANDS FORMED THE DRY LAND. [6], O come, let us worship and bow down: let us KNEEL BEFORE THE LORD OUR MAKER. [7], FOR HE IS OUR GOD; AND WE ARE THE PEOPLE OF HIS PASTURE, AND THE SHEEP OF HIS HAND. TODAY IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, [8], HARDEN NOT YOUR HEART, AS IN THE PROVOCATION, AND AS IN THE DAY OF TEMPTATION IN THE WILDERNESS: [9], WHEN YOUR FATHERS TEMPTED ME, PROVED ME, AND SAW MY WORK. [10], FORTY YEARS LONG WAS I GRIEVED WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, IT IS A PEOPLE THAT DO ERR IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN MY WAYS: [11], TO WHOM I SWORE IN MY WRATH THAT THEY SHOULD NOT ENTER INTO MY REST.
Note the link back to what Hebrews 3 is quoting....
  • Psalms 95:2-7 is worshiping the only true creator God of heaven and earth. Today if you hear His voice…. (“This is the another day” in Hebrews 4:7-8 spoken of by David ….. for if Joshua had given them rest – (promised land) David would not have spoken of “another day” saying “Today if you hear His voice harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the wilderness. Gods’ people were still hardening their hearts in sin and unbelief)
  • Psalms 95:8 "Harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the wilderness (see Hebrews 3:8)
  • Psalms 95:9 "When your fathers tempted me 40 years" (see Hebrews 3:9)
  • Psalms 95:10 40 years Gods' people did not know God's ways (Hebrews 3:10)
  • Psalms 95:11 Because God's people did not know God's ways they did not enter His rest (Hebrews 3:11)
Summary: Hebrews 3 is has links to Ezekiel 20:10-12 and is directly quoting from Psalms 95 which is about worshiping the only true God and creator of heaven and earth. God's people did not know God's ways and broke His Sabbaths and God did not give them His rest. They could not enter into God's rest because of unbelief and sin and God poured out His judgements on them because they broke his Sabbaths and they died in the wilderness because of their unbelief and sins.

Let's define what Gods' rest/My rest/His rest is from the scriptures in the next post

more to come...
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
WHAT IS GOD'S REST OF HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], LET US THEREFORE FEAR, LEST, A PROMISE BEING LEFT US OF ENTERING INTO HIS REST, ANY OF YOU SHOULD SEEM TO COME SHORT OF IT.
[2], FOR TO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS TO THEM: BUT THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT.
[3], For WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

KEY POINTS FROM THE SCRIPTURES OF HEBREWS 4:1-5
  • Hebrews 4:6 Some must enter into Gods seventh day Sabbath rest but those who did not believe did not enter into Gods' rest
  • Hebrews 4:2 Because unto us was the gospel preached as well us unto them but they did not believe
  • Hebrews 4:3 We who believe (present tense) enter into God's rest from the foundation of the world
  • Hebrews 4:4 Reference of Hebrews 4:3 is to the Gods' Sabbath rest of the "seventh day" (Genesis 2:1-3)
  • Hebrews 4:4-5 God's rest is the seventh day Sabbath of creation that we enter into by faith (Genesis 2:1-3)
NOTE: The context in Hebrews 4:1-5 is God's Rest from the seventh day Sabbath from the foundation of the world (v4-5) and those who enter Gods rest by and believing and following Gods Word [the gospel] who enter into God's Sabbath rest as God did on the seventh day of the week. The context here defining God’s rest/My rest/His rest is to God’s seventh day Sabbath rest created at the foundation of the world that those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do or do not enter into. The new testament writer of Hebrews is warning us that if we do not believe and follow God's Word (the gospel) and continue in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13; 18-19) we will never enter into God's rest (His Rest/My Rest) which is defined as the "seventh day" Sabbath rest in Hebrews 4:1-5. There are two rests here. One is to the rest we enter into by believing and following Gods Word which is our rest and the rest we enter into by believing and following God’s Word to God’s rest which is the seventh day Sabbath. Hebrews 4:3-5 defines God's rest by saying [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (God's rest): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the "seventh day" on this wise, And God did rest the "seventh day" from all his works. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest ("seventh day").

[6], SEEING THEREFORE IT REMAINS THAT SOME MUST ENTER THEREIN, AND THEY TO WHOM IT WAS FIRST PREACHED ENTERED NOT IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF: [7], AGAIN, HE LIMITS A CERTAIN DAY, SAYING IN DAVID, TO DAY, AFTER SO LONG A TIME; AS IT IS SAID, TODAY IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS. [8], FOR IF JOSHUA HAD GIVEN THEM REST, THEN WOULD HE NOT AFTERWARD HAVE SPOKEN OF ANOTHER DAY.

Reference back to what David is saying in reference to “another day

Psalms 95:2-11 [2], Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise to him with psalms. [3], For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. [4], In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also. [5], The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land. [6], O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. [7], For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if you will hear his voice, [8], Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: [9], When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. [10], Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
[11], To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Note the link back to what Hebrews 3-4 is quoting....
  • Psalms 95:2-7 is worshiping the only true creator God of heaven and earth. To day if you hear His voice…. (“This is the another day” in Hebrews 4:7-8 spoken of by David ….. for if Joshua had given them rest – (promised land) David would not have spoken of “another day” saying “To day if you hear His voice harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the wilderness. Gods’ people were still hardening their hearts in sin and unbelief)
  • Psalms 95:8 "Harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the wilderness (see Hebrews 3:8)
  • Psalms 95:9 "When your fathers tempted me 40 years" (see Hebrews 3:9)
  • Psalms 95:10 40 years Gods' people did not know God's ways (Hebrews 3:10)
  • Psalms 95:11 Because God's people did not know God's ways they did not enter His rest (Hebrews 3:11)
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH. [10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.” According to the Greek and scripture contexts of Hebrews 3:7-19 and Hebrews 4:1-9, Hebrews 4:9 is in regards to God’s seventh day Sabbath of the 4th commandment which in the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 which defines God’s rest/My rest/His rest (Hebrews 3:11; 18-19; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5; 10) as the “seventh day” from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Lamsa Bible
Hebrews 4:9 It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

For your interest, the Greek word used here for Sabbath is Sabbatismos and means a Sabbath keeping or keeping of the Sabbath or how the Sabbath is kept by resting.

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

Receive Gods correction and be blessed.

Take Care.
 
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