Example: Jews. Christians. Muslims worship the same God of Abraham

[Unveiled Artist]

Why can't there be more than one Creator?

In Abrahamic religions, there is only one. Haven't you read the memo?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The fact the concept evolved due to only man redefining previous traditions.

Jews redefined Canaanite concepts
Christians redefined Jewish concept
islam redefined it all.

So since none of them have the same definition, they are not the same god.

Jews have a compiled two deity concepts together, changing the Canaanite concepts.

Christians added a "son" and ghost to the deity concept changing the Jewish changed version.

islam changed it by removing the son, and redefining Jewish mythology.

Good point. That's like my "mother" scenario. I have siblings, my mother favor us all even though each of us think we are special... we as children create all these differences.... but our mother is always the same regardless.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Muslims and Jews almost had the same point of God , maybe some Christians (first Christians) believe the same way , i don't know why some Christains believe otherwise , since Jesus (pbuh) never claim that he is God or teaching trinity

Exactly. I'm going by the bible and not by what majority of Christians think.

Who is the God of Abraham? Christian God? Muslim God? Jewish God?

History shouldn't change the nature of God--the Creator (like my mother's decisions shouldn't change that she's my mother no matter how each of her siblings see her differently)

 

[Godobeyer]

Exactly. I'm going by the bible and not by what majority of Christians think.

Who is the God of Abraham? Christian God? Muslim God? Jewish God?

History shouldn't change the nature of God--the Creator (like my mother's decisions shouldn't change that she's my mother no matter how each of her siblings see her differently)

God Abraham is Creator , THE ONE GOD

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God Abraham is Creator , THE ONE GOD

Yes. Im understand. Thats my OP. There is a diff of opinion on this thread though

 

[Tesla]

I dont believe Jesus is God nor do a lot of Christians nor does it say it biblically. That's why I say there would be only one Creator if Jews, Muslims, and Christians all believe in the God not Gods of Abraham.

I think that's a really nice change of pace from what I've heard from every other Christian I've spoken to. I can appreciate and respect your position on this, and I agree that there is no biblical basis either in my book, or in the NT to support the claim that Jesus is G-d.

But on the flip side, the vast majority of Christians do believe that Jesus is G-d. So Judaism and Christianity (at large) do not believe in the same creator.

 

[metis]

More so then many suggest.

Many people who don't want o face the historical truth often use this.

It is extremely presumptuous for you to claim that you somehow miraculously know these "historical truths" when it is virtually impossible to do so. What you continue to do is to elevate your opinions to be facts when the reality is that they're only opinions. Any good historian will admit to that which they do not and could not know, and saying "I don't know" is maybe the wisest statement of all.

 

[metis]

In Abrahamic religions, there is only one. Haven't you read the memo?

My question wasn't just in terms of the Abrahamic religions, nor did what I quote from you state that it was,

Why are you being snarky about this here with me?

 

[rosends]

That's the problem.

Your using a mythological based pattern and one firmly based in history, in my opinion.

so use Harry Potter. Different people have mutually exclusive images of who he is. Pick any fictional character. Literary interpretation allows for a variety of iterations, often with contradictory natures.

 

[rosends]

Biblical christianity doesnt believe Jesus is God. The nature of God, the Creator has nothing to do with being human. The nature of the Creator is that he created humans. Whether many christians believe that a human rather than God is not my to say.

In George Washington scneario, both sides are saying George Washington is human by history book accounts. Half of the people think he is an alien. The other not.

No, the nature of God in Judaism is that he doesn't change his mind. The nature in Christianity requires that he changes his mind. It can't be both. Therefore the nature being envisioned is not identical.

 

[outhouse]

.... but our mother is always the same regardless.

In this case historically speaking, mother would be allegory for ancient mythology

 

[outhouse]

It is extremely presumptuous for you to claim that you somehow miraculously know these "historical truths" when it is virtually impossible to do so.

Pretty wild for you, being I laid no fence rounding up these horses.

Any good historian will admit to that which they do not and could not know, and saying "I don't know" is maybe the wisest statement of all.

Depends now doesn't it?

There is a lot we do know. We know the Canaanite origins of proto Israelites without a doubt.

We know Israelites compiled two deities into one.

Much we know.

 

[metis]

There is a lot we do know. We know the Canaanite origins of proto Israelites without a doubt.

We know Israelites compiled two deities into one.

Much we know.

Actually we don't actually know any of these as these are theories that are indeed supported by some evidence but simply cannot be established as conclusive, regardless as to what you say. As an anthropologist, I would be eaten alive by my own colleagues if I stated the above in the kind of terminology you've used above. Just ask Silberman and Finkelstein about that as even they went too far with this and caught plenty of flack-- and rightfully so. The evidence is scant, and taking a solid position with so little evidence is not condoned in anthropology nor history by most of us.

 

[outhouse]

Actually we don't actually know any of these as these are theories that are indeed supported by some evidence but simply cannot be established as conclusive, regardless as to what you say. As an anthropologist, I would be eaten alive by my own colleagues if I stated the above in the kind of terminology you've used above. Just ask Silberman and Finkelstein about that as even they went too far with this and caught plenty of flack-- and rightfully so. The evidence is scant, and taking a solid position with so little evidence is not condoned in anthropology nor history by most of us.

Sorry but these two things are well substantiated. Your talking about 40 years ago maybe.

#1. Canaanite origins
#2. Compiled two deities into one.

There are no doubts on either topic. Only refusal by biased apologist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[76] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[77] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[78] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[78] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[79] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah

Modern scholars therefore see Israel arising peacefully and internally from existing people in the highlands of Canaan

 

[outhouse]

Actually we don't actually know

Yes we do.

That is why you have no credible replacement hypothesis to explain the origins of these people.

We have factual evidence

Canaanite Pottery
Canaanite alphabet
Canaanite language
Canaanite mythology

And in a general Canaanite location right when the Canaanite civilizations collapsed, and within 50 ish years were settling the highlands of Israel.

I'm sorry but we now know with extreme certainty.

 

[metis]

Sorry but these two things are well substantiated. Your talking about 40 years ago maybe.

#1. Canaanite origins
#2. Compiled two deities into one.

There are no doubts on either topic. Only refusal by biased apologist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[76] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[77] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[78] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[78] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[79] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah

Modern scholars therefore see Israel arising peacefully and internally from existing people in the highlands of Canaan

If you read the materials more carefully, you'll see what they're saying in much less confident terms, such as Wikipedia's "may indicate connections" statement. Again, a reminder that Finkelstein and Silberman were taken to task over stating their "facts" in too uncertain terms. I believe it is likely that they are correct, but it's simply not a slam-dunk.

 

[outhouse]

, but it's simply not a slam-dunk.

It is for these two cases, or I would not state such.

I believe it is likely that they are correct

For the same reason this quote below is true.

Modern scholars therefore see Israel arising peacefully and internally from existing people in the highlands of Canaan

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think that's a really nice change of pace from what I've heard from every other Christian I've spoken to. I can appreciate and respect your position on this, and I agree that there is no biblical basis either in my book, or in the NT to support the claim that Jesus is G-d.

But on the flip side, the vast majority of Christians do believe that Jesus is G-d. So Judaism and Christianity (at large) do not believe in the same creator.

Thank you. I do get why all three would say no. I just find it kind of odd that Abraham, Moses, Jesus to Bahuallah, Muhammad, John Smith would talk about one Creater with no man image of him (man not god) but the majority of christians who do believe Jesus is God some how sways what the Bible taught.

Sorry, not having a good day at all. Jesus/God Christians believe in the one Creator, only in that respect I agree its not the same god

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My question wasn't just in terms of the Abrahamic religions, nor did what I quote from you state that it was,

Why are you being snarky about this here with me?

I thought you were, how do you say, making a small positive ironic statement of something you knew already.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, the nature of God in Judaism is that he doesn't change his mind. The nature in Christianity requires that he changes his mind. It can't be both. Therefore the nature being envisioned is not identical.

I actually cant see "God changing his mind"...that's kind of out of my territory. I just know that if all three religions believe in One God of Abraham and his nature is the Creator, Perfect, Love, and all the above, then that nature would be the same.

Its like you're basing who the Creator is by the decisions he makes and not by who he is regardless of his decisions.

EDIT

I have my point now. Tell me if this is true.

You are basing the nature of God on the decisions he made?

--

To me, that doesn't make sense. Are Christians, Muslims, and Jews calling each others gods imperfect even though his nature is perfect and to say it is not because of X (from all believers) is lying against the very nature of each of your Creator?