Evolution My ToE

[YoursTrue]

I can make no sense of this statement, sorry.

I'll try again, maybe you'll make sense of what I said. Does evolution think? Does evolution have a mind? Or do changes happen because circumstances and elements enable those changes, for instance, when a fish supposedly becomes something else. Did the fish decide that it will become another form of life?

 

[YoursTrue]

Not a lot and I believe I admitted that when I first mentioned it.



There are some for Australian Aboriginals. Only ever read a small section of one book that was about San beliefs but I haven't really looked into it so there could be more.



I don't think the God of the bible exists so can't answer that. If I'm wrong and he does exist then it would appear he doesn't give two hoots.



So they're not mindless in your opinion?

What's the BD discussion forum, since you say you're a refugee from that.

 

[YoursTrue]

My application of silly myths? Personally they have less impact on me than stories of Zeus.

However, many people who profess to believe in scripture also want to eat bacon and lobster. I just remind them of their hypocrisy.

Are you Jewish? Now if a Jew eats bacon and lobster they could say they just don't go by that law in the Scriptures. Christians are not under that law of Moses as far as eating pork, and shellfish.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hi Dan,



Yes I'm a tragic bird nerd, at least it gets me out of the house also get some exercise and meet some new people. Been helping out with research on migratory species, unfortunately the news isn't good, with all the coastal development in Asia most of them seem doomed.



I thought so but was hoping it might be something different... oh well

Lately, I have been reading the bad news about bird populations everywhere. The projections don't look good if we keep going like we are.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Just to let you know, I buy bird calendars every year -- they are so beautiful, the birds, and add joy to our lives just to see how beautiful they are.

We are doing a great job of wiping out those beautiful birds.

 

[John53]

So allow me to understand. You like the religion of the Australian Aboriginals but don't really know they beliefs or customs except that they respect nature. Is that right?

I never said I like the religion of Aboriginals, I believe I said something like "I have a soft spot for their tribal beliefs. I do know a little about their customs and beliefs and have a couple of friends that are Aboriginal but I'm no expert. I don't believe their are any experts left for the local tribe (the Worimi people), most were killed by disease or deliberately murdered soon after European occupation and those left alive were moved from their traditional lands and nomadic life to live at Missions where their tribal beliefs were forbidden. For the record I don't believe Baiamie came to earth in the form of a giant goanna, crawled out of the sea creating the valley where I lived then went into the sky and married an emu. Nor do I believe Yahweh spoke the universe into existence over 7 days. Both are stories that people created to explain the world around them.

As far as caring, why do you think God does not care?

Something that doesn't exist doesn't care.

I'm thinking when I said "mindless evolution," I certainly wasn't saying gorillas are mindless. Did you think I was?

No. The whole mindless thing is irrelevant. You are using mindless as an adjective when it isn't need. I'm pretty good at spotting things without minds without having it pointed out.

 

[dad]

The point is that He didn't free you from the old laws. Rather, He re-asserted His command that the old laws must be adhered to - (Matthew 5:17)

In other words, He came to finish it, or fulfill all it said would come. He did not refer to keeping all ancient long gone bylaws for Israel. When He taught His disciples about the law and prophets they were taught how the Psalms and prophets all spoke about Him...not taught them about laws. His law is love! His law is all we need now.

You choose to ignore the old laws.

Advice on being kind to workers is not law. His law is to love God with all our hearts and minds and soul. Naturally if we do that, being kind comes with the territory.

You choose to disobey God the Father.
You choose to disobey the admonishments of Jesus.

No, I simply chose not to dishonor the spirit of what it is about as you do.

Yet, you choose to ignore scripture. You befoul your body with forbidden foods,

The kingdom of heaven is not meat and drink actually. Nor will I let any man bring me under the bondage of the law.

If instead of telling His people how to treat slaves, He had told people about the evils of owning slaves, there would not have been any slave owners is the old very religious Christian South.

It was not evil! In that day it was life. The world is full of evil now as it was then. You attempt to blame God for evil, to justify your own.

 

[YoursTrue]

I never said I like the religion of Aboriginals, I believe I said something like "I have a soft spot for their tribal beliefs. I do know a little about their customs and beliefs and have a couple of friends that are Aboriginal but I'm no expert. I don't believe their are any experts left for the local tribe (the Worimi people), most were killed by disease or deliberately murdered soon after European occupation and those left alive were moved from their traditional lands and nomadic life to live at Missions where their tribal beliefs were forbidden. For the record I don't believe Baiamie came to earth in the form of a giant goanna, crawled out of the sea creating the valley where I lived then went into the sky and married an emu. Nor do I believe Yahweh spoke the universe into existence over 7 days. Both are stories that people created to explain the world around them.



Something that doesn't exist doesn't care.



No. The whole mindless thing is irrelevant. You are using mindless as an adjective when it isn't need. I'm pretty good at spotting things without minds without having it pointed out.

Oh, see, that's what interpretation does. When you said you had a "soft spot" for their tribal beliefs, that's how I understood it, that you liked their religion but wasn't really familiar with it, I suppose. Similar things happened in America with the indigenous people and the take-over by missionaries, often forcing them to change. Sad, really.
As far as the seven-day idea of Creation in Genesis, there's a lot to learn there. I realize that each day was not a literal 24-hour day, but could have been thousands of years. Maybe longer.

 

[YoursTrue]

In other words, He came to finish it, or fulfill all it said would come. He did not refer to keeping all ancient long gone bylaws for Israel. When He taught His disciples about the law and prophets they were taught how the Psalms and prophets all spoke about Him...not taught them about laws. His law is love! His law is all we need now.

Advice on being kind to workers is not law. His law is to love God with all our hearts and minds and soul. Naturally if we do that, being kind comes with the territory.
No, I simply chose not to dishonor the spirit of what it is about as you do.


The kingdom of heaven is not meat and drink actually. Nor will I let any man bring me under the bondage of the law.


It was not evil! In that day it was life. The world is full of evil now as it was then. You attempt to blame God for evil, to justify your own.

To beat and abuse anyone is not in harmony with what Jesus taught.

 

[YoursTrue]

I never said I like the religion of Aboriginals, I believe I said something like "I have a soft spot for their tribal beliefs. I do know a little about their customs and beliefs and have a couple of friends that are Aboriginal but I'm no expert. I don't believe their are any experts left for the local tribe (the Worimi people), most were killed by disease or deliberately murdered soon after European occupation and those left alive were moved from their traditional lands and nomadic life to live at Missions where their tribal beliefs were forbidden. For the record I don't believe Baiamie came to earth in the form of a giant goanna, crawled out of the sea creating the valley where I lived then went into the sky and married an emu. Nor do I believe Yahweh spoke the universe into existence over 7 days. Both are stories that people created to explain the world around them.



Something that doesn't exist doesn't care.



No. The whole mindless thing is irrelevant. You are using mindless as an adjective when it isn't need. I'm pretty good at spotting things without minds without having it pointed out.

I use the word mindless in reference sometimes to evolution because scientists do not say or admit that any intelligent force or power was instrumental in making life. Yes, with your computer, you are in part the intelligence behind a mindless machine, of course, caused by intelligent minds making the computer. The computer is mindless. Good illustration.

 

[John53]

What's the BD discussion forum, since you say you're a refugee from that.

Bible-discussion forum, I was a member for many years until it disappeared suddenly. I made a lot of friends, learnt a lot and wasted a lot of time there. There's a few people that have moved here but not as many as I hoped.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I use the word mindless in reference sometimes to evolution because scientists do not say or admit that any intelligent force or power was instrumental in making life. Yes, with your computer, you are in part the intelligence behind a mindless machine, of course, caused by intelligent minds making the computer. The computer is mindless. Good illustration.

There is no evidence that an intelligent agent was involved. You want scientists to lie to appease your belief, when you cannot produce the evidence either?

Humans made the computer. That is only evidence for human intelligence and means nothing else no matter how often it is repeated.

 

[John53]

I use the word mindless in reference sometimes to evolution because scientists do not say or admit that any intelligent force or power was instrumental in making life. Yes, with your computer, you are in part the intelligence behind a mindless machine, of course, caused by intelligent minds making the computer. The computer is mindless. Good illustration.

Why would they bother to say there is no intelligent force or power driving evolution... I thought that was obvious.

 

[dad]

To beat and abuse anyone is not in harmony with what Jesus taught.

Exactly. He is not like that. He said He sets the captives free. The slanderous defamatory blasphemous character assassination attempts of God haters should not be confused with an honest position.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly. He is not like that. He said He sets the captives free. The slanderous defamatory blasphemous character assassination attempts of God haters should not be confused with an honest position.

So now you are claiming that the Old Testament is not accurate. I do wish that you would make up your mind.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

When I asked for proof,

You're being obtuse, because I and everyone else on these forums has already explained to you, a million times, that science doesn't use "proof". It uses EVIDENCE.

So why do you keep asking for something that you know is not something we have ever claimed exists?

I mean some form of verifiable evidence

I've presented you with the evidence. Multiple times.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I haven't learned that about the flood

You should have learned it in high school though. Nevertheless, the information is readily available all over the internet. Off course, you need to query appropriate science sources - not propaganda channels like Answers In Genesis and alike, obviously. They'll only feed you religiously inspired misinformation.

although I know others say it did not happen as recorded

Including the very founders of Geology, as in the scientific field, who went out to gather evidence of the flood to prove once and for all that it occured.

During their research, they concluded - much to their surprise - that there was no way to make it work and that all the evidence was against it. Eventually, they could only conclude that the biblical flood never happened.

As the Gospel accounts, it appears clear to me they were basically written by those who said they wrote it.

That might appear "clear" to a layman you, but those who actually study it in depth, come to very different conclusions again.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe the future as described in the Bible is coming, and therefore people will see the difference. Jesus spoke about Noah, and also spoke about the future similar to the days of Noah. You may have heard about it.

Yeah, we've all heared about your apocalyptic doomsday prophecies. How couldn't we... your ilk has been rambling on and on about it for like 2000 years. "any day now". uhu.

Ever heared of the boy who cried wolf?
You guys are more like the boy who cried werewolf

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You know what I find interesting? That some, I think, believe that Neanderthals were all killed out or died out, don't they?

Well, they certainly aren't around anymore.

And some (evolutionists and scientists that describe previous cataclysms) also believe that there were great disasters wiping out lots and lots of animals

Are you talking about the known 5 major extinction events?
Those have nothing to do with the disappearing of Neaderthals, btw.

and possibly (?) some of those they claim were close humanoid types.

The last mass extinction event was about 65 million years ago which whiped out the dino's. No humanoids existed then.

Not that it means one should believe in the Bible

That's certainly an understatement.......

, but yet you do believe there were great disasters, don't you?

Because of the rock solid evidence that they happened.
Not because some iron age book tells a fantastical tale.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Please give exact scientific references to common descent, with, yes, proof that one organism evolved from another and there is evidence of common descent

Nested hierarchies.
And that, from independent lines of evidence like comparative anatomy (of both extant as well as fossil species), fully sequenced genomes, single genetic markers,... and all that even matching geographic distribution of species

[Now when you give the scientific references, please make sure that common folk like me can understand it

Sorry, but if you wish to comprehend the evidence of a big unified field theory like evolution, you're going to have to learn at least the basics.

If you don't have some basic grasp of an explanatory model for some phenomena, you'll also be unable to comprehend what is and isn't evidence in support of that model.

You're basically saying here "Convince me that X is true, but don't ask me to learn what X is, because I don't want to"

, otherwise I hope you can explain in your own words what it means to someone as dumb as me. (Thanks.) If not, don't bother. Thanks again.

Who says you're dumb? Those are your words, not ours.
I don't think you're dumb. It seems to me that you're just ignorant. And from the sound of it, willfully ignorant.

Being ignorant can easily be solved though. All it takes is some learning.
Off course if you don't want to learn......

That's fine, but then also understand that you're pretty much excluding yourself from any meaningfull conversation on the topic.