And I think their goal was to eliminate as many of the entitlements (welfare, health care act, even to privatizing social security) as they could.
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Empathy fail.
- Thread starter Truth in love
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- empathy
And I think their goal was to eliminate as many of the entitlements (welfare, health care act, even to privatizing social security) as they could.
Brian2
Veteran Member
No doubt the right wing all over the world does the same sort of things.
Ella S.
*temp banned*
I have seen these views expressed quite regularly, although I cannot say whether it is a genuine trend or a minority of loud voices.
I try not to label other people and to focus on their actions so that I can better predict their behavior.
Theoretically, some people's actions are more harmful than others and some people's actions increase well-being more than others.
Actually calculating those values is difficult and prone to heuristic-induced biases, especially if we take indirect consequences into account. A serial killer might provide more value to a community than a doctor because they indirectly inspire that community to band together, causing several more people to become doctors, for instance.
So this is a genuinely difficult question. I think the solution is to focus on what we can know, which focuses on patterns of behavior and their direct consequences, thus allowing us to say that the doctor is probably more useful to society than the serial killer.
It is quite possible that particular individuals have such a high net harm to society that killing them is the better option.
That said, I do not advocate for capital punishment, because I think most people that are this harmful can be reformed or at least contained. Killing them, therefore, is unnecessary harm.
There are situations where killing someone is probably necessary, though, such as with active shooters or when someone won't be arrested due to corruption.
Yes, and for much longer than a week, but I'm probably not referring to the same kind of people and acts that you are. You're talking about people like the Texan preacher calling for the execution of gays that @Evangelicalhumanist started a thread about just after this one, "Listen while a MAGA preacher in Texas calls for execution of gay people." I'm referring to the epidemic of selfishness plaguing American society, the "me me me" people who consider it an imposition if not outright persecution if they experience restrictions on their behavior such as not being allowed to refuse service to people they have been taught to discriminate against, or not being allowed to work certain jobs unvaccinated.
We've watched it unfolding over the last two years with the violent outbursts in markets, fast food venues, airports and airplanes by people refusing to cooperate by wearing a mask, utterly indifferent to the fears or welfare of the people around them. I have yet to see any of these people even acknowledge that there are other people that deserve consideration, because they simply never have such thoughts. What are we to think about these people? Shall we consider them part of the community, or just people living among us that we disapprovingly endure?
Look at the recent discussions about gun restriction. How many expressions of empathy have you seen from the pro-gun people? I have yet to read a single comment by any of them that isn't in the defense to gun ownership. Not one acknowledging that parents are terrified and children dying. It simply never comes up in their thoughts. Same question: What are the people who experience empathy and want something done to think about such people - fellow Americans with whom they share common values and common dreams, or something else outside of the bounds of decency and community? Moreover, we know that these people are afraid to live without guns. What is the empathetic community's duty to consider their fears and listen to their opinions?
Now for the answer to the questions above about how to view these selfish people. I see them as tantrumming, hissyfitting infants, and I strongly disapprove of them. I know that many people don't like the Karen meme, but it is emblematic of this class of people angrily screaming at people and calling the police or the manager when they don't get their way. My attitude? Their demands don't matter to me. I don't like them, and I have nothing for them. They are not in my circle of community. Should I feel empathy for them? I don't. If they can't behave as part of "we," then they are perceived as "they."The community of "we" is those we love, which includes self, one's inner circle, and all of the people (and animals) in the world until they lose that status, which for me, includes these selfish, empathy-free people. It turns out that not all lives matter.
Does that mean that I want to hurt them? No. I'm not like the Christian preacher above. I just don't care about them. Like I said, I have nothing for them, and I don't mind misfortune befalling them. This came to the forefront with the antivaxxers, whose biographies copied from their Facebook pages I mentioned elsewhere have been posted on an Internet site for several months now. These biographies begin with the antivaxx memes, which are hateful and defiant and indicate that these people don't care at all about their neighbors. They often want Fauci arrested or executed.
What shall I feel for the death of this person to Covid? I would have wept for her had she been an immunocompromised person who died despite vaccination, but for her, I have nothing but indifference. It's not schadenfreude. I don't celebrate her death, but I also don't grieve it:
Do I have an empathy problem myself? I don't see it as a problem. My empathy is for the empathetic. That's the community of "we," the people I will gladly compromise with and sacrifice for, whose opinions matter just because they hold them, whose hopes and dreams matter because they deserve to be fulfilled.
The others are seen as outsiders, "they," and they're on their own with me. And yes, I've heard the empty platitudes about loving one another meaning everybody, including enemies, but as I explained, I don't feel love for those people once they declare themselves to be uninterested in the people around them. That's when they leave the circle of "we," the circle of community, the circle of people with mutual concern and respect.
I thought you were strictly non-dualist?
But there is no escaping duality is there, in this world of illusion?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Very true.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
There is a real world, the world of physical energy which perhaps has two phases, existent and non existent. We know only about the first phase.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, that is a belief system.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
The perceived wold is but an illusion, so there is only one, the real one.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
We will perhaps know in time, not in my lifetime though. The real world is sure there, only that we do not know its exact properties.
And what if the illusion is the material world, the one studied by the science you place so much faith in?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Yes, and for much longer than a week, but I'm probably not referring to the same kind of people and acts that you are. You're talking about people like the Texan preacher calling for the execution of gays that @Evangelicalhumanist started a thread about just after this one, "Listen while a MAGA preacher in Texas calls for execution of gay people." I'm referring to the epidemic of selfishness plaguing American society, the "me me me" people who consider it an imposition if not outright persecution if they experience restrictions on their behavior such as not being allowed to refuse service to people they have been taught to discriminate against, or not being allowed to work certain jobs unvaccinated.
We've watched it unfolding over the last two years with the violent outbursts in markets, fast food venues, airports and airplanes by people refusing to cooperate by wearing a mask, utterly indifferent to the fears or welfare of the people around them. I have yet to see any of these people even acknowledge that there are other people that deserve consideration, because they simply never have such thoughts. What are we to think about these people? Shall we consider them part of the community, or just people living among us that we disapprovingly endure?
Look at the recent discussions about gun restriction. How many expressions of empathy have you seen from the pro-gun people? I have yet to read a single comment by any of them that isn't in the defense to gun ownership. Not one acknowledging that parents are terrified and children dying. It simply never comes up in their thoughts. Same question: What are the people who experience empathy and want something done to think about such people - fellow Americans with whom they share common values and common dreams, or something else outside of the bounds of decency and community? Moreover, we know that these people are afraid to live without guns. What is the empathetic community's duty to consider their fears and listen to their opinions?
Now for the answer to the questions above about how to view these selfish people. I see them as tantrumming, hissyfitting infants, and I strongly disapprove of them. I know that many people don't like the Karen meme, but it is emblematic of this class of people angrily screaming at people and calling the police or the manager when they don't get their way. My attitude? Their demands don't matter to me. I don't like them, and I have nothing for them. They are not in my circle of community. Should I feel empathy for them? I don't. If they can't behave as part of "we," then they are perceived as "they."The community of "we" is those we love, which includes self, one's inner circle, and all of the people (and animals) in the world until they lose that status, which for me, includes these selfish, empathy-free people. It turns out that not all lives matter.
Does that mean that I want to hurt them? No. I'm not like the Christian preacher above. I just don't care about them. Like I said, I have nothing for them, and I don't mind misfortune befalling them. This came to the forefront with the antivaxxers, whose biographies copied from their Facebook pages I mentioned elsewhere have been posted on an Internet site for several months now. These biographies begin with the antivaxx memes, which are hateful and defiant and indicate that these people don't care at all about their neighbors. They often want Fauci arrested or executed.
What shall I feel for the death of this person to Covid? I would have wept for her had she been an immunocompromised person who died despite vaccination, but for her, I have nothing but indifference. It's not schadenfreude. I don't celebrate her death, but I also don't grieve it:
Do I have an empathy problem myself? I don't see it as a problem. My empathy is for the empathetic. That's the community of "we," the people I will gladly compromise with and sacrifice for, whose opinions matter just because they hold them, whose hopes and dreams matter because they deserve to be fulfilled.
The others are seen as outsiders, "they," and they're on their own with me. And yes, I've heard the empty platitudes about loving one another meaning everybody, including enemies, but as I explained, I don't feel love for those people once they declare themselves to be uninterested in the people around them. That's when they leave the circle of "we," the circle of community, the circle of people with mutual concern and respect.
Why can’t
Yes, and for much longer than a week, but I'm probably not referring to the same kind of people and acts that you are. You're talking about people like the Texan preacher calling for the execution of gays that @Evangelicalhumanist started a thread about just after this one, "Listen while a MAGA preacher in Texas calls for execution of gay people." I'm referring to the epidemic of selfishness plaguing American society, the "me me me" people who consider it an imposition if not outright persecution if they experience restrictions on their behavior such as not being allowed to refuse service to people they have been taught to discriminate against, or not being allowed to work certain jobs unvaccinated.
We've watched it unfolding over the last two years with the violent outbursts in markets, fast food venues, airports and airplanes by people refusing to cooperate by wearing a mask, utterly indifferent to the fears or welfare of the people around them. I have yet to see any of these people even acknowledge that there are other people that deserve consideration, because they simply never have such thoughts. What are we to think about these people? Shall we consider them part of the community, or just people living among us that we disapprovingly endure?
Look at the recent discussions about gun restriction. How many expressions of empathy have you seen from the pro-gun people? I have yet to read a single comment by any of them that isn't in the defense to gun ownership. Not one acknowledging that parents are terrified and children dying. It simply never comes up in their thoughts. Same question: What are the people who experience empathy and want something done to think about such people - fellow Americans with whom they share common values and common dreams, or something else outside of the bounds of decency and community? Moreover, we know that these people are afraid to live without guns. What is the empathetic community's duty to consider their fears and listen to their opinions?
Now for the answer to the questions above about how to view these selfish people. I see them as tantrumming, hissyfitting infants, and I strongly disapprove of them. I know that many people don't like the Karen meme, but it is emblematic of this class of people angrily screaming at people and calling the police or the manager when they don't get their way. My attitude? Their demands don't matter to me. I don't like them, and I have nothing for them. They are not in my circle of community. Should I feel empathy for them? I don't. If they can't behave as part of "we," then they are perceived as "they."The community of "we" is those we love, which includes self, one's inner circle, and all of the people (and animals) in the world until they lose that status, which for me, includes these selfish, empathy-free people. It turns out that not all lives matter.
Does that mean that I want to hurt them? No. I'm not like the Christian preacher above. I just don't care about them. Like I said, I have nothing for them, and I don't mind misfortune befalling them. This came to the forefront with the antivaxxers, whose biographies copied from their Facebook pages I mentioned elsewhere have been posted on an Internet site for several months now. These biographies begin with the antivaxx memes, which are hateful and defiant and indicate that these people don't care at all about their neighbors. They often want Fauci arrested or executed.
What shall I feel for the death of this person to Covid? I would have wept for her had she been an immunocompromised person who died despite vaccination, but for her, I have nothing but indifference. It's not schadenfreude. I don't celebrate her death, but I also don't grieve it:
Do I have an empathy problem myself? I don't see it as a problem. My empathy is for the empathetic. That's the community of "we," the people I will gladly compromise with and sacrifice for, whose opinions matter just because they hold them, whose hopes and dreams matter because they deserve to be fulfilled.
The others are seen as outsiders, "they," and they're on their own with me. And yes, I've heard the empty platitudes about loving one another meaning everybody, including enemies, but as I explained, I don't feel love for those people once they declare themselves to be uninterested in the people around them. That's when they leave the circle of "we," the circle of community, the circle of people with mutual concern and respect.
Given the blatant lie your starting with about what the preacher said how can anyone believe anything else in your post?
Lack of empathy is not a one sided issue, but the lies about others actions make it impossible to trust the rest of what you are saying.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
And that is your belief.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Material is an illusion as atom bombs proved.
An illusion with duality (wave/particle) at it’s fundamental level, indeed. So if the material world is illusory, what is real?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
IMHO, physical energy.
Viker
Häxan
I've seen, witnessed and been a target of it since I can remember.
No.
Impossible. All humans are persons and relative.
Example: A clock can be considered human only using the word human as an adjective, created by human hands...still, it's a nonperson.
I think some of it is a lack of trust of the media. If you don't trust what is reported are suspect what is reported is does so with bias, you may withhold any empathy based on uncertainty of what is reported.
For adults I don't really know, I don't assume to know their life. Empathy requires one to assume knowledge of someone else's life/feelings. Unless I'm dealing directly with the person I tend not to make a lot of assumptions. So I tend not to feel a lot of empathy for people I'm not directly in contact with.
For kids, yeah I tend to feel more empathy since they are mostly defenseless and depending on adults to care for them.
However just because I don't empathize with people mean I dismiss them. I tend to treat everyone neutrally unless I actually know more about them.