Dutch Government censors David Icke (not allowed to come to Holland)

[SomeRandom]

Again you miss my point

Which is?

 

[Nakosis]

Dutch Government censors David Icke (not allowed to come to Holland to give a speech)

Big Brother is getting implemented more and more. Holland used to be democratic, but not allowing David Icke to come to Holland to give a speech is 1 step further towards censorship

What do you believe?
It's good to censor freedom of speech?
All humans are equal, but some are more equal than others?

I don't like the government trying to protect me from the wackos.
I'd rather not have the government thinking I can't think for myself.

The government doesn't trust the people to do their own thinking. Maybe they have a point but, I don't like it.

 

[stvdv]

Which is?

Free speech is gradually taken away

Governments lies and twists facts

 

[stvdv]

I don't like the government trying to protect me from the wackos.
I'd rather not have the government thinking I can't think for myself.

The government doesn't trust the people to do their own thinking. Maybe they have a point but, I don't like it.

Exactly my point

Thanks for sharing and explaining so well

 

[SomeRandom]

Free speech is gradually taken away

Governments lies and twists facts

My government denied him entry to our country too. And yet here we both are, saying whatever the hell we want constantly.
Almost like such prophesies about taking away free speech are merely scare tactics. Tactics that no longer work on me. Folks cried wolf too many times, so to speak

 

[Subduction Zone]

David Icke: Conspiracy theorist banned from Netherlands

Icke is a daft covid conspiracy theorist who blames the virus on 5G masts...and the Jews. The Dutch take a dim view of antisemitism.

I see no reason why a country should admit a foreigner coming purely to spread dangerous falsehoods.

For some odd reason the countries most strongly affected by the holocaust are also the ones most sensitive to antisemitism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't like the government trying to protect me from the wackos.
I'd rather not have the government thinking I can't think for myself.

The government doesn't trust the people to do their own thinking. Maybe they have a point but, I don't like it.

That is a pretty loose use of the term "thinking".

 

[stvdv]

My government denied him entry to our country too. And yet here we both are, saying whatever the hell we want constantly.
Almost like such prophesies about taking away free speech are merely scare tactics. Tactics that no longer work on me. Folks cried wolf too many times, so to speak

Now you misrepresent the whole thing, comparing it to what we share on RF. That is totally irrelevant here

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How many communists does America allow in to convert people to communism.

The law technically strips citizens who are Communists of their rights.
The Communist Control Act of 1954 (68 Stat. 775, 50 U.S.C. §§ 841–844) is an American law signed by President Dwight Eisenhower on August 24, 1954, that outlaws the Communist Party of the United States and criminalizes membership in or support for the party or "Communist-action" organizations and defines evidence to be considered by a jury in determining participation in the activities, planning, actions, objectives, or purposes of such organizations.[1]
....
the fact that the CCA suspended the citizenship rights of the Communist Party members.

Communist Control Act of 1954 - Wikipedia

 

[Nakosis]

That is a pretty loose use of the term "thinking".

noun: thinking
the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about something.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's more than just the Netherlands, they somehow managed to ban him from basically(?) the whole EU. How disgusting, but with their known contempt for freedom of speech, it's not surprising. The EU probably won't be around much longer, anyway, so they might as well get their tyrant on while they can. **** the EU.

....

"The Dutch government has banned British conspiracy theorist David Icke from the Netherlands and the entire Schengen area of the European Union for two years over fears his presence could "disturb public order".

Icke claimed that he had been banned by the "fascist Dutch regime" and published on his website a letter sent to him on Thursday by the Dutch immigration services, on behalf of State Secretary for Justice and Security Eric van der Burg.

Icke is a former professional footballer and television presenter who has argued that the world is ruled by reptiles, a theory recently advocated by the Dutch populist parliamentarian Thierry Baudet.

Icke was due to speak at a demonstration in Amsterdam on Sunday against the Ukraine war, the Dutch government and energy prices.

Amsterdam officials fear that there will be clashes, even if Icke only appears by via video link."

Netherlands bans UK conspiracy theorist David Icke from EU for 2 years

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's more than just the Netherlands, they somehow managed to ban him from basically(?) the whole EU. How disgusting, but with their known contempt for freedom of speech, it's not surprising. The EU probably won't be around much longer, anyway, so they might as well get their tyrant on while they can. **** the EU.

....

"The Dutch government has banned British conspiracy theorist David Icke from the Netherlands and the entire Schengen area of the European Union for two years over fears his presence could "disturb public order".

Icke claimed that he had been banned by the "fascist Dutch regime" and published on his website a letter sent to him on Thursday by the Dutch immigration services, on behalf of State Secretary for Justice and Security Eric van der Burg.

Icke is a former professional footballer and television presenter who has argued that the world is ruled by reptiles, a theory recently advocated by the Dutch populist parliamentarian Thierry Baudet.

Icke was due to speak at a demonstration in Amsterdam on Sunday against the Ukraine war, the Dutch government and energy prices.

Amsterdam officials fear that there will be clashes, even if Icke only appears by via video link."

Netherlands bans UK conspiracy theorist David Icke from EU for 2 years

Several countries in the EU are well ahead of the US in terms of multiple freedom metrics, and those include the Netherlands. They're not "known for their contempt of freedom of speech" except mainly among a subset of people in the US who subscribe to the largely unique and harmful interpretation the US has of what "free speech" means.

The EU doesn't abide nazi speech or other hate speech, and for good reason. They learned the lesson in World War II. With the increasing hold of theocracy in the US, there's now even more evidence that the EU knows much more about how to preserve freedom than the US does.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Several countries in the EU are well ahead of the US in terms of multiple freedom metrics, and those include the Netherlands. They're not "known for their contempt of freedom of speech" except mainly among a subset of people in the US who subscribe to the largely unique and harmful interpretation the US has of what "free speech" means.

The EU doesn't abide nazi speech or other hate speech, and for good reason. They learned the lesson in World War II. With the increasing hold of theocracy in the US, there's now even more evidence that the EU knows much more about how to preserve freedom than the US does.

Uh huh. Yeah, banning speech you don't like is certainly being "miles ahead". "Hate speech" is just an Orwellian weapon to use against 'enemies'. I'll take my American freedoms enshrined in the Constitution any day over some authoritarian, unelected bureaucracy. The EU would do better to actually listen to the concerns and rightful anger that many of their citizens are expressing, not spit in their face by banning public figures who show up to support the people in their grievances (Icke wasn't going to do one of his presentations but to attend a rally I assume he was invited to). But they think they're above the masses, anyway. They keep it up, they'll learn the hard way that they aren't. Not saying I want that, but it's good to pay attention to the cycles of history.

 

[Subduction Zone]

noun: thinking
the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about something.

Ah,, so you are saying that it was not thinking. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I agree, but Holland lacks our freedom of speech.
So censoring this loony there makes sense...for them.

I would say that has worked out for them quite well compared to what the US is experiencing.

As far as I can see, a lot of speech in the US is more akin to "freedom of incitement," and the results become clearer by the day at this point. The Netherlands clearly isn't having any of that.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Uh huh. Yeah, banning speech you don't like is certainly being "miles ahead". "Hate speech" is just an Orwellian weapon to use against 'enemies'. I'll take my American freedoms enshrined in the Constitution any day over some authoritarian, unelected bureaucracy. The EU would do better to actually listen to the concerns and rightful anger that many of their citizens are expressing, not spit in their face by banning public figures who show up to support the people in their grievances. But they think they're above the masses, anyway. They keep it up, they'll learn the hard way that they aren't.

The Netherlands is a democracy and, as I said, ranks consistently above the US on multiple indices of freedom and quality of life. The latter is what I mean by their being ahead. I'm also not sure how their officials would be unelected considering that it's a democracy.

Needless to say, I strongly disagree with your view about hate speech. I think the line can be reasonably drawn at incitement, under which antisemitism comfortably falls in countries that have had their trials and tribulations with Nazism. David Icke and other propagators of such are not entitled to gain entry into the EU to promote similar ideas to what eventually led to World War II and the Holocaust.

In my opinion, there's no rightful anger in asking to promote such ideas. The fringes who think ideas like Holocaust denial and conspiracy theories about reptilians support them in their "grievances" need to be addressed in other ways, not by indulging their harmful ideologies or giving them free rein to ruin the society they live in by promoting beliefs that have historically been closely associated with genocide and loss of life.

 

[SomeRandom]

Now you misrepresent the whole thing, comparing it to what we share on RF. That is totally irrelevant here

You said the government is taking away free speech. Denying entry to a country is not the same thing as taking away someone’s free speech. Is this person jailed for speaking his mind? Has he incurred any monetary damages as a direct result of his speech? (Barring illegal activity like slander or libel or whatever.)
If the answer is no, then I would make the argument that your OP misrepresented the issue in the first place.
This isn’t free speech, it’s a government looking at a bloke and using their freedom of speech to say “kindly go away.”

No one is owed a free pass into a country. Well maybe refugees. But still. All have to obey the limits of whatever government places onto their entry. And like it or not, all governments can deny entry to whomever they please. Always have, always will.

This Mr Icke person can still say whatever he wants. He just isn’t owed a platform. Same as everyone else.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Netherlands is a democracy and, as I said, ranks consistently above the US on multiple indices of freedom and quality of life. The latter is what I mean by their being ahead. I'm also not sure how their officials would be unelected considering that it's a democracy.

Needless to say, I strongly disagree with your view about hate speech. I think the line can be reasonably drawn at incitement, under which antisemitism comfortably falls in countries that have had their trials and tribulations with Nazism. David Icke and other propagators of such are not entitled to gain entry into the EU to promote similar ideas to what eventually led to World War II and the Holocaust.

In my opinion, there's no rightful anger in asking to promote such ideas. The fringes who think ideas like Holocaust denial and conspiracy theories about reptilians support them in their "grievances" need to be addressed in other ways, not by indulging their harmful ideologies or giving them free rein to ruin the society they live in by promoting beliefs that have historically been closely associated with genocide and loss of life.

Icke is not a Holocaust denier and does not promote hatred, racism or discrimination against Jews. He's an anti-Zionist and criticizes the state of Israel, especially their treatment of the Palestinians. He has said many times that it is wrong to scapegoat Jewish people as a group, or any other group. He does promote free speech and think free people have the right to question anything, though. I've read almost all of his books and owned most of them. Even the "lizard people" thing is out of date and he's refined his views into a sort of neo-Gnosticism, as his worldview is really more spiritual. But who cares about that when you can just rely on smears from ignorant people who aren't even familiar with his work.

This rally has nothing to do with Jews or "lizard people", anyway. It appears to be about the Ukraine war and the energy crisis.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Icke is not a Holocaust denier and does not promote hatred, racism or discrimination against Jews. He's an anti-Zionist and criticizes the state of Israel, especially their treatment of the Palestinians. He does promote free speech and think free people have the right to question anything, though. I've read almost all of his books and owned most of them. Even the "lizard people" thing is out of date and he's refined his views into a sort of neo-Gnosticism, as his worldview is really more spiritual. But who cares about that when you can just rely on smears from ignorant people who aren't even familiar with his work.

This rally has nothing to do with Jews or "lizard people", anyway. It appears to be about the Ukraine war and the energy crisis.

There are plenty of activists and speakers who freely criticize Israel in the EU, and I fully agree with them. The issues with Icke seem to run deeper than that; I don't think it's unreasonable for the EU in particular to be wary of conspiracy theories involving Jews.

That said, if Icke could somehow guarantee he wouldn't repeat that kind of rhetoric within the EU, then I would disagree with the decision to deny him entry.

I think the rally should also be able to proceed without him if it's only about the Ukraine and the energy crisis, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would say that has worked out for them quite well compared to what the US is experiencing.

I take both the long & the libertarian view.
Tis better to give government less control over speech.

As far as I can see, a lot of speech in the US is more akin to "freedom of incitement," and the results become clearer by the day at this point. The Netherlands clearly isn't having any of that.

You're welcome to prefer government managed speech.
I'll take our freer environment.