Does your religion prevent you?

[Audie]

Ah, that way.

Another Low habit is cutting doors in half.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Does your religion prevent you from listening to certain types of music?

Or does certain words like curse words etc. prevent you from hearing something?

Listening to songs of other religions is mostly not for me. I sometimes like secular sufi songs. I can tolerate Hindu devotional music. This is personal. Hinduism has nothing to say about it.
I would not like uncivil words. We do not have that in Indian music - religious or classical.

 

[Nimos]

Listening to songs of other religions is mostly not for me. I sometimes like secular sufi songs. I can tolerate Hindu devotional music. This is personal. Hinduism has nothing to say about it.
I would not like uncivil words. We do not have that in Indian music - religious or classical.

But you would have no issue listening to pop music, heavy metal, death metal etc.?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But you would have no issue listening to pop music, heavy metal, death metal etc.?

That is not my music. My adventure with Western music ended with Cliff Richard blues. I am an old person.
Though our folk music like Punjabi 'Bhangra', Marathi 'Lavani' is good.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

Another Low habit is cutting doors in half.

Yeah, and we use ovens so small that foreigners would consider them a variety of cooking pots rather than an actual oven.

 

[Audie]

Yeah, and we use ovens so small that foreigners would consider them a variety of cooking pots rather than an actual oven.

Ive heard too that the uncles are always scolding people.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

Ive heard too that the uncles are always scolding people.

Well whaddayaknow, I didn't even know this about my uncles!

 

[Audie]

Well whaddayaknow, I didn't even know this about my uncles!

You get so used to things they seem normal.
Like the funny way we talk seems normal here.

 

[firedragon]

I see. To me this prohibition doesn't make sense. Because whether one sing something or simply speak it normally doesn't seem to me to be any different. In fact I would argue that someone speaking normally is far more effective than singing. So if anything that ought to be prohibited.

But again, im an atheist so rarely, if ever, does any of these religious rules make any sense to me and why an all powerful God would care about things like this, it seems rather desperate to me.

Well Nimos. You leave me no choice. I have to agree with you.

If I make any typos I apologise. I was at a 3 hour session on zoom and closed the application. The video was set to save and its taking part of my screen over.

 

[Eyes to See]

I don't agree with Jesus on this, I would not love my enemy and I would be happy to see them fall.

I don't think this is a good teaching at all, that would be like saying that people shouldn't celebrate when WW2 were won and over and to me that is rubbish.

It follows along the same line as "do to others as you want them to do to you" kind of thing, absolutely rubbish teaching. It sound all catchy and right, but really is not something one should live by, in my opinion.

But that still doesn't solve the issue, because lets assume that I thought it was wrong to show Jesus on the cross, that is violence right? So are we going to remove that, or do we keep it because some think it is fine? So you end up with the issue of who decide what is art or acceptable and what is not? otherwise it might just as well stay as it is, because that is what would basically happen, unless someone decided what is allowed and what is not.

I can understand why you think the way you do. And it is a very common practice today is it not? The world teaches thoughts, attitudes, and actions, and being permeated by this spirit it has to rub off on you.

But following God’s counsel is actually for our benefit. Jehovah’s Witnesses have learned to leave behind vengeance, and learn to love. Desiring vengeance or wanting hurt on a perceived enemy foments hatred, and hatred violence, and violence hatred, and the world is in a self-destructive cycle of such behavior.

On the other hand people who have displayed such tendencies who have let themselves be molded by God’s word have been transformed into better people. For example a person who wanted revenge because of the injustices he saw in movies toward African Americans during slavery became hate filled and began to act out his hatred on people in the movie theatre, white kids. Then he started to look for other areas he could act out his hatred against his “white oppressors” all because of the injustices he saw play out in the movies. He became a part of a gang, and hate-filled he committed many acts of violence on many people. Then he started to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses and he let those words, to “return evil to no one,” “to be peaceable to with all people,” and not to avenge yourself mold his life. Later when a rival gang member found him and insulted him and assaulted him he became rage filled and wanted to avenge himself. But he prayed and put into practice what he learned from the Bible. The next day he was alone with this gang member and again became will with range wanted to avenge himself, but again prayed and controlled his temper. It is interesting what that gang member told him:

“One evening, Adrian was attacked by a former rival gang. The leader shouted: “Defend yourself!” Adrian admits: “I felt a very strong urge to retaliate.” But instead of retaliating, he said a brief prayer to Jehovah and left the scene.Adrian continues: “The next day I encountered the gang leader by himself. Vengeful anger welled up in me, but again I silently begged Jehovah to help me control myself. To my surprise, the youth came right up to me and said: ‘Forgive me for what happened last night. The truth is, I would like to become like you. I want to study the Bible.’ How glad I was that I had been able to control my anger! Thanks to that, we began to study the Bible together.”

I was just reading his story and thought of your comment that you don’t agree that we should avoid thoughts of vengeance, which lead to hate, which lead to violence, which is a very destructive cycle. I can understand why you think the way you do. But Jehovah’s people who have allowed themselves to be molded by his word and his way of thinking have seen his wisdom is far superior than that of the world’s. I will leave this account of Stephen who also allowed himself to be guided by thoughts of revenge and hate towards injustices done towards his race by white people:

“Stephen’s viewpoint changed drastically when he started studying the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses. He recalls: “Having been exposed to so much racial prejudice, I saw things among the Witnesses that astounded me. For example, when a white Witness had to travel abroad, he left his children in the care of a black family. Also, a white family took into their home a black youth who needed a place to live.” Stephen became convinced that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the loving brotherhood that Jesus foretold would exist among true Christians.—John 13:35.What enabled Stephen to abandon his hateful actions? The scripture at Romans 12:2 helped him. He says: “I began to realize that I needed to change my thinking. I had to make my mind over so that I not only acted peaceably but also saw this as the best way of life.” Stephen has now enjoyed a life free of hateful feelings for over 40 years.”

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=2022013&par=0

 

[Nimos]

On the other hand people who have displayed such tendencies who have let themselves be molded by God’s word have been transformed into better people. For example a person who wanted revenge because of the injustices he saw in movies toward African Americans during slavery became hate filled and began to act out his hatred on people in the movie theatre, white kids. Then he started to look for other areas he could act out his hatred against his “white oppressors” all because of the injustices he saw play out in the movies. He became a part of a gang, and hate-filled he committed many acts of violence on many people. Then he started to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses and he let those words, to “return evil to no one,” “to be peaceable to with all people,” and not to avenge yourself mold his life. Later when a rival gang member found him and insulted him and assaulted him he became rage filled and wanted to avenge himself. But he prayed and put into practice what he learned from the Bible. The next day he was alone with this gang member and again became will with range wanted to avenge himself, but again prayed and controlled his temper. It is interesting what that gang member told him

But it doesn't apply here.

The message of Jesus in this case could be good, but people drawing bad or wrong conclusions and acting on them, that is the real problem.

It would be like me saying that "some Muslims are terrorist therefore I hate all of them and they are all bad people so I will do what I can to get rid of them". Which is basically what the guy in the story did.

"For example a person who wanted revenge because of the injustices he saw in movies toward African Americans during slavery became hate filled and began to act out his hatred on people in the movie theatre, white kids."

No one denies, at least not most people, that slavery occurred and was horrible, but drawing the conclusion that therefore all current living white people support slavery and are racists is to draw a wrong conclusion and act on it.

If this person for instance were constantly suffering from racist policemen or white oppression (Enemy), then he should fight it and I don't mean through violence, but whatever way seems reasonable to change how things are so they can be improved. He shouldn't run away or love these people for doing something that is clearly wrong.

Things like these shouldn't be accepted or loved, but should be fought.

 

[Eyes to See]

But it doesn't apply here.

The message of Jesus in this case could be good, but people drawing bad or wrong conclusions and acting on them, that is the real problem.

It would be like me saying that "some Muslims are terrorist therefore I hate all of them and they are all bad people so I will do what I can to get rid of them". Which is basically what the guy in the story did.

"For example a person who wanted revenge because of the injustices he saw in movies toward African Americans during slavery became hate filled and began to act out his hatred on people in the movie theatre, white kids."

No one denies, at least not most people, that slavery occurred and was horrible, but drawing the conclusion that therefore all current living white people support slavery and are racists is to draw a wrong conclusion and act on it.

If this person for instance were constantly suffering from racist policemen or white oppression (Enemy), then he should fight it and I don't mean through violence, but whatever way seems reasonable to change how things are they can be improved. He shouldn't run away or love these people for doing something that is clearly wrong.

Things like these shouldn't be accepted or loved, but should be fought.

Jehovah’s Witnesses prove that God’s words, and Jesus’ are superior. They are united worldwide by peace and love and unity in one thought and mind all serving shoulder to shoulder speaking a pure language of truth.

If all the earth applied God’s words and Jesus counsel there would be no more hatred, wars, violence, prejudice, racism. Everyone would live in peace. So really it isn’t that God’s word doesn’t apply or is wrong, even if you don’t agree with it. It is beneficial. For so many reasons. But in the end not everyone will apply God’s words, or submit themselves to his will. That is why we pray for Jesus’ kingdom to come to earth and his will be done on it as in heaven. The Bible promises that God will soon forcefully remove all wicked people who do not submit to peace and love. its promise is that only the meek ones will remain and inherit the earth. (Psalms 37:10-11).

 

[1213]

Does your religion prevent you from listening to certain types of music? ...
Or does certain words like curse words etc. prevent you from hearing something?

I just don’t want to listen anything that I think would be against God.

 

[Nimos]

The Bible promises that God will soon forcefully remove all wicked people who do not submit to peace and love.

But in that case it doesn't matter if you are a believer or not I guess? Im an atheist obviously, but I like peace and love as well, so ill be fine as well, right?.

 

[Eyes to See]

But in that case it doesn't matter if you are a believer or not I guess? Im an atheist obviously, but I like peace and love as well, so ill be fine as well, right?.

There will be many unbelievers that will be resurrected back to life in the future paradise on earth. And they will enjoy the rich blessings of Jesus' kingdom rule. But at the same time they will learn the truth and then they will be able to make an informed decision about whether they want to serve God or not.

We are living in the last days and the majority of all humankind who has died during these troublesome times have gone to rest in what the Bible refers to as Sheol, or the grave. And the Bible gives a promise and a hope of a resurrection from the dead to life again both for righteous people and unrighteous:

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."-John 5:28-29.

Prophecy says that only the righteous will live forever, so if the wicked who are resurrected to not repent they will eventually die again:

"The righteous will possess the earth,
And they will live forever on it."
-Psalms 37:29.

Although I cannot judge as Jehovah God and Jesus Christ are the judges, I can share with you what the Bible indicates and this prophecy tells us that at the battle of Armageddon all wicked human society will be done away with in everlasting destruction (which means they will not take part in a future resurrection):

"But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction."-2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.

So two groups of people are mentioned here that will be put to death and receive the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction, those who do not know God, an atheist would definitely fit that bill, and those who do not obey the good news. So people who know the truth but don't apply it in their lives.

It is possible because Jehovah has witnesses declaring his name in all the earth and giving people an opportunity to repent that these ones who reject his messengers will be deemed fit for everlasting destruction in God's eyes. Again I will not judge because only God, thru Jesus does the judging at that time. But there are other scriptures that make it apparent that if you don't serve Jehovah God at the end you will be destroyed along with the rest of wicked human society at Armageddon and will not receive a future resurrection.

 

[Nimos]

There will be many unbelievers that will be resurrected back to life in the future paradise on earth. And they will enjoy the rich blessings of Jesus' kingdom rule. But at the same time they will learn the truth and then they will be able to make an informed decision about whether they want to serve God or not.

So getting a bit mixed messages here.

From what you are writing here, from a logical point of view, being an atheist is by far the best choice, because I don't see any difference between you as a JW and me as an atheist when judgement comes. I will simply be able to live my life as I please, without any of the restrictions that comes with a religious belief, yet when the time comes and God reveal himself, I would obviously believe and if God is nothing like that of the bible I might even accept him. But this means that I haven't "sacrificed" anything in my physical life. And God doesn't seem to care anyway from what you are writing here.

So two groups of people are mentioned here that will be put to death and receive the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction, those who do not know God, an atheist would definitely fit that bill, and those who do not obey the good news. So people who know the truth but don't apply it in their lives.

It is possible because Jehovah has witnesses declaring his name in all the earth and giving people an opportunity to repent that these ones who reject his messengers will be deemed fit for everlasting destruction in God's eyes. Again I will not judge because only God, thru Jesus does the judging at that time. But there are other scriptures that make it apparent that if you don't serve Jehovah God at the end you will be destroyed along with the rest of wicked human society at Armageddon and will not receive a future resurrection.

But I do know about Jesus, God and the bible, but don't see evidence that it is true. So in that case I would be destroyed, because im wicked and don't blindly accept it because someone told me about it? Isn't that sort of like committing eternal murder or what to say?

In Danish school and assume in many countries, children are thought about the bible, God, Jesus and hear the stories. Any of those that doesn't accept it are potentially going to be destroyed or punished for an ETERNITY without even knowing it. In that case, I would strongly suggest banning all teaching of Christianity and to burn the bible and anyone that mention anything about it to anyone that hasn't agree to it, should be punished for murder. Because again as I wrote above, as an atheist you are far better off, if you can simply make the choice in the very end.

Wouldn't that be just?

And if that is not who these wicked are that you refer to, who exactly are considered wicked then?

 

[Eyes to See]

So getting a bit mixed messages here.

From what you are writing here, from a logical point of view, being an atheist is by far the best choice, because I don't see any difference between you as a JW and me as an atheist when judgement comes. I will simply be able to live my life as I please, without any of the restrictions that comes with a religious belief, yet when the time comes and God reveal himself, I would obviously believe and if God is nothing like that of the bible I might even accept him. But this means that I haven't "sacrificed" anything in my physical life. And God doesn't seem to care anyway from what you are writing here.


But I do know about Jesus, God and the bible, but don't see evidence that it is true. So in that case I would be destroyed, because im wicked and don't blindly accept it because someone told me about it? Isn't that sort of like committing eternal murder or what to say?

In Danish school and assume in many countries, children are thought about the bible, God, Jesus and hear the stories. Any of those that doesn't accept it are potentially going to be destroyed or punished for an ETERNITY without even knowing it. In that case, I would strongly suggest banning all teaching of Christianity and to burn the bible and anyone that mention anything about it to anyone that hasn't agree to it, should be punished for murder. Because again as I wrote above, as an atheist you are far better off, if you can simply make the choice in the very end.

Wouldn't that be just?

And if that is not who these wicked are that you refer to, who exactly are considered wicked then?

It really doesn't matter what my standards or views are. You should be more concerned with what Jehovah views as a righteous person and a wicked one. He has set standards that are found in the Bible. You would study it with someone who knows them to learn about them. If you want to please Jehovah then you would live your life in accord to his righteous standards.

Let me ask you something, if a good man had children and provided everything they needed and they never recognized him or even thanked him for the good things they had or even for being alive, would you consider these children good children?

There is a reason why Jehovah has raised up witnesses to proclaim the good news about God's kingdom. In Ezekiel he says it this way:

‘Do I take any pleasure at all in the death of a wicked person?’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘Do I not prefer that he turn away from his ways and keep living?’
24 “‘But when someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, doing all the detestable things the wicked do, will he live? None of the righteous acts that he did will be remembered. For his unfaithfulness and the sin he has committed, he will die.
25 “‘But you will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Please listen, O house of Israel! Is it my way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
26 “‘When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong and dies because of it, he will die for his own wrongdoing.
27 “‘And when someone wicked turns away from the wickedness that he has committed and begins to do what is just and righteous, he will preserve his own life. 28 When he realizes and turns away from all the transgressions that he has committed, he will surely keep living. He will not die.
29 “‘But the house of Israel will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Is it really my ways that are unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?’
30 “‘Therefore, I will judge each one of you according to his ways."
-Ezekiel 18:23-30.

 

[Nimos]

It really doesn't matter what my standards or views are. You should be more concerned with what Jehovah views as a righteous person and a wicked one. He has set standards that are found in the Bible. You would study it with someone who knows them to learn about them. If you want to please Jehovah then you would live your life in accord to his righteous standards.

I have read the bible and chatted with one of your witnesses for about 2.5 year, very friend person . But I think that is enough to have a reasonable understanding and opinion about it.

What you might not have realized is that im an atheist, which means that I don't care about what the bible, God or Jesus think is right or wrong, unless it can be demonstrated. I don't fear hell, I don't fear eternal punishment and even if God existed I don't think he deserve to be worshipped. So I have no desire or interest in pleasing God in any way, first and foremost, because I don't think there is proof that one even exist to begin with.

Let me ask you something, if a good man had children and provided everything they needed and they never recognized him or even thanked him for the good things they had or even for being alive, would you consider these children good children?

Yes, they might very well be. What if the child is handicapped and is unable to communicate? or doesn't it apply here?

There is a reason why Jehovah has raised up witnesses to proclaim the good news about God's kingdom.

Wait, stop.. give me one good reason first, why I should consider what you are saying over what a Bahai, Jew or Muslim might say? And why you are right and they are wrong?

This is the problem that a lot of religious people don't realize when talking to an atheist, everyone speaks to us as if their religion or view of God is right and never have anyone been able to demonstrate or give a good reason for why the others are wrong.

 

[Eyes to See]

I have read the bible and chatted with one of your witnesses for about 2.5 year, very friend person . But I think that is enough to have a reasonable understanding and opinion about it.

What you might not have realized is that im an atheist, which means that I don't care about what the bible, God or Jesus think is right or wrong, unless it can be demonstrated. I don't fear hell, I don't fear eternal punishment and even if God existed I don't think he deserve to be worshipped. So I have no desire or interest in pleasing God in any way, first and foremost, because I don't think there is proof that one even exist to begin with.


Yes, they might very well be. What if the child is handicapped and is unable to communicate? or doesn't it apply here?


Wait, stop.. give me one good reason first, why I should consider what you are saying over what a Bahai, Jew or Muslim might say? And why you are right and they are wrong?

This is the problem that a lot of religious people don't realize when talking to an atheist, everyone speaks to us as if their religion or view of God is right and never have anyone been able to demonstrate or give a good reason for why the others are wrong.

Well I think the Bible says it better than I could:

"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”  However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”-Romans 10:13-15.

 

[sun rise]

That's "a deeper look" by a nobody as far as it comes to islamic rulings. Islamic rulings come from the Quran and the sunnah.

And people disagree about the meanings which is my point.