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Does your religion prevent you?
- Thread starter Nimos
- Start date
The Crimson Universe
Active Member
I don't think my religion Hinduism prevent its followers from hearing music of christianity or islam.
And i like Christian Choir music. Its so divine and angelic. Also love hearing to the Islamic prayers that comes from far away distant mosques, especially in the evening time.
And i like Christian Choir music. Its so divine and angelic. Also love hearing to the Islamic prayers that comes from far away distant mosques, especially in the evening time.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
A bit confusing as someone just said it was prohibited, which is why I asked if it depends on interpretation.
From my understanding it depends on the group and the nature of the music. That is gone into in the article I referenced.
Depending on the community of interpretation, one can find devotional music legitimate, controversial, or illegitimate.
No, I cannot watch movies unless I find that 1 out of a 1000,000 that doesn't contain anything haram and I'm not sure it exists.
I don't know how movie theaters work in Muslim countries, but I suspect the majority work like in non-Muslim countries.
Majority of Muslims aren't that close to Islam. But the question is, is it permissable to listen to music and the answer is, no.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
When I was fundamentalist/evangelical Christian, I threw away all of my secular music, threw away all of the Christian music that had the "wrong beats," (thank you, Bill Gothard), took the covers off the cassettes where the guys had long hair (we just know that Jesus didn't have girly man hair, right?), didn't watch R rated movies, had to go out of town to dance (I was Baptist), and threw away all books that were "bad." Trying to think of anything else. I am sure there was more. It took me money and time to get my old music, books, etc back, and I dance my heart out now.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Nice
What made you get out of Christianity, just wondering?
Several reasons. Once I got the courage to question, the main thing that had been bugging me was the problem of evil/suffering. The excuses were lame. Then, I realized that the religion didn't make people act any better, as it became all about right belief instead of following Jesus' teachings. So I left. I still like Jesus though.
Audie
Veteran Member
Of course. Look what the nethrrlands
came up with.
" put your tulips a little closer to the
phone "!!??
It's both in the Quran and hadith.
On the same page you can find two hadiths relating to the topic, though there are many more:
Nimos
Well-Known Member
But doesn't it depend on which translation or interpretation you use, because I looked up different ones and this is the result. Basically the only one that say anything about it, is the one that adds (i.e music, singing, etc.)? But was that originally in the Quran? I mean did the writers write like this or is that simply an interpretation which have been added, because the others doesn't have this?
Sahih International
And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech to mislead [others] from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment.
Muhsin Khan
And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e.music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Quran) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire).
Pickthall
And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom.
Yusuf Ali
But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.
Shakir
And of men is he who takes instead frivolous discourse to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement.
Dr. Ghali
And of mankind are (they) who trade diverting discourse to lead into error away from the way of Allah without knowledge, and to take it to themselves in mockery; those will have a degrading torment.
My knowledge of the Quran is not huge ill admit that. But why do you consider the Muhsin Khan translation more correct than the other ones? Because if I read any of these, except the Muhsin Khan one, I wouldn't personally reach the conclusion that music or singing is prohibited according to this verse. Again, my knowledge of the Quran is very limited, so I don't even know where these different translations comes from or why. But assume its like the Bible with different ones as well?
Unless I am quoting others, all things that I post are my opinions. (This statement was required by sysops).
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Puritan-Christians-think-music-and-dancing-is-wrong
Puritans were forbidden to listen to any music or dance. Idle hands were said to be the tools of the devil. (Source above)
Jews, on the other hand, have Cantors (singers) who sing their religion. They are trained to sing in schools as they get their degrees in religion.
Native American Music and Curriculum: Controversies and Cultural Issues on JSTOR
Wanting To Be Indian: When Spiritual Searching Turns Into Cultural Theft
Navajo/Hopi (now one reservation because the government put them both together) have sacred songs that they feel evoke Gods. Sadly, many of those songs have been absconded by modern song writers, and they fear that the Gods will be awakened by the music. Isn't it enough to have taken their land?
Native Americans also hope to stop the practice of naming sports teams after Native Americans (Braves, Chiefs, Warriors, Redskins, etc). This makes people think that they are fierce, wild, or untamable. But they are people just like anyone else. They deserve human rights.
Forum filters prevent me from using the foul language of some modern music. I've heard Rap music that repeated the same cuss words over and over and over again....ad nauseum. I hope that eventually everyone will realize that this music is lousy and they will stop listening to it. Some people think that singing that so-called music makes them tough, so frail young women sing it. Will it ever become old music that no one listens to?
There is music that instructs how to treat (or, rather, mistreat) women. "Slap those b....'s around." "f..." them.
They say that we are what we eat. I wonder if we should order an extra large order of donkey meat for the authors of some of that Classical Rap (CRap)? Donkeys, of course, are the honorable beasts of burden mentioned in the bible.
If we are what we eat, and we listen to horrible degrading and profane music, aren't we consuming music for our brains? Doesn't listening to profanity, and watching profanity, make our brains profane? Does it harden us to the world around us? Does exposing minors to porn or profanity make them jaded or tougher?
Certainly we can understand that kicking a junkyard dog every day makes the dog mean. Those dogs attack anything that moves (which is why they are used to guard.
Various genres of music had their distinct characters. In the early 1950's, romance movies and dances and musicals were common. That was the era of great prosperity, before the huge national debt was foist on the next generation to pay.
The genre of Motown (Motor-Town....Detroit, where cars were made) was controlled by Blacks. They made their music reflect their increasinglyl violent culture. Once they had an iron grip on the recording industry, they made packages for radio stations to play. Those packages included copyright agreements, and packaged news. Radio stations were given the option of getting the copyrights of each and every song that they played (a daunting and expensive task), or paying for packaged music that already had copyrights. Hence, they had to play the news broadcasts that were in the package, and news, at that time, was highly skewed. They were literally brainwashing America with phony news broadcasts.
The Religious Right tried to ban (or burn) books (very much like Reverend Savonarolla in the Dark Ages, in the Bonfire of the Vanities). "Catcher in the Rye," "the Wizard of Oz" and other books were burned or banned. They portrayed witchcraft or nudity. Today, there is a push to ban Harry Potter books for the same reason. Also, some want to ban Harry Potter books because JK Rowling made Wizard Professor Alber Dumbledor Gay, and Gays are forbidden by God.
At what point to do ban books for being against religion?
Some scientists, in the Dark Ages, were tortured (or perhaps killed) for suggesting that meteorites fell from God's perfect sky (heavens). Should we ban science?
Can we educate people to dislike porn?
Some wanted to ban the internet because it could corrupt kids. Oddly, kids don't pay much attention to porn, since it is all aro9und them. They are not like the teens of a previous generation that were obscessed with porn because it was forbidden.
We've seen that McCarthyism was just as harsh as the Communism that he fought. Shall we be harsh dictators, like the Ayatollah Khomeni, and ban anything that is contrary to our take on religion?
Where do we draw the line?
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
A lot of the music in Satan's world promotes wickedness, immorality, violence, murder, and other disgusting vices. A lot of that is promulgated in certain types of music more than others, such as Hip-Hop and Heavy Metal. While not all music is filthy in either genre, the genres themselves are so full of filth a Christian would do well do avoid them. And of course A Christian would be selective in the music, or any form of entertainment that they engage in in all genres.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't forbid any music/movies. Rather they are trained with the Bible to distinguish both right and wrong and make entertainment decisions based on a sound Christian conscience, recognizing that the conscience of one person differs from that of another. So while a certain form of entertainment might not necessarily be bad, one Christian, because of a weak, or overly sensitive conscience, may not view it as okay, that is to be respected, and another Christian that is more mature may view same thing as okay, the Christian with the overly sensitive conscience shouldn't be judging the other Christian as to their form of entertainment. Although it is better to avoid it if it stumbles them.
For example a newly converted Christian may have such a sensitive conscience that they judge all forms of entertainment as wrong. While extreme and unnecessary a mature Christian acknowledges their viewpoint and doesn't interfere with their conscience. While a mature Christian sees no problem having a TV in their home and viewing appropriate TV programs that are not in conflict with Christian morals.
Here are a few scriptures that should guide us in selecting entertainment and judging others as to what they select:
"Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one;
He hates anyone who loves violence."
-Psalm 11:5.
A Christian would avoid all forms of entertainment that glorifies violence. It is something that Jehovah detests.
"O you who love Jehovah, hate what is bad."-Psalm 97:10.
It is not simply enough to love Jehovah, one must develop a hatred of what Jehovah hates. Sexual immorality, spiritsm in all of its forms, violence, hatred, racism, etc.
"Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats only vegetables. Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand."-Romans 14:1-4.
This is talking of a newly converted Christian, because of being new, and having an untrained and thus a weak conscience considers it a sin to eat any form of meat. They should avoid meat in order not to offend their conscience, but they should not go beyond their limit of judging and condemn their brother if their brother (or sister's) conscience allows them to eat meat, as there is nothing wrong in God's eyes in doing so. This would apply in all areas of life. There are things a certain newly converted person may view as wrong, and that is okay. A mature Christian accepts them with their weakness in faith and does not judge them. But the newly converted person, with a weak conscience has no right to condemn or judge their brother if because of a fully-developed mature Christian conscience they see no problem in whatever it may be.
"All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person."-1 Corinthians 10:23-24.
Paul here acknowledges that if a trained Christian conscience allows the Christian to do things then they are free to do them, they are lawful. But it may not always be advantageous to do them. And that is where a Christian differs widely from the world. Instead of viewing something as their right, without considering the other person Paul acknowledges that while all things are lawful, not all things are advantageous, and then we are told to seek the interest of the other person first.
Now here is something else to consider he goes on to talk about eating meat from a meat market. Much of this meat would have been from animals scarified to false gods and idols. Something detestable. But since God created everything, a Christian is clear to eat the meat sold in the meat market, no matter if it was used first in some pagan ritual, saying a prayer over it sanctifying it with thanksgiving to Jehovah:
"Eat whatever is sold in a meat market, making no inquiry because of your conscience, for “to Jehovah belong the earth and everything in it.” If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, making no inquiry on account of your conscience. But if anyone says to you, “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat because of the one who told you and because of conscience. I do not mean your own conscience, but that of the other person. For why should my freedom be judged by another person’s conscience?"-1 Corinthians 10:25-29.
But if you notice he then tells the person that if an unbeliever may be stumbled because of what the believer is doing it is better to avoid doing it even if there is nothing wrong with it, on account of the conscience of the unbeliever. Jesus himself did this all the time. We should always be sensitive to the conscience of a newly converted person, and of the conscience of an unbeliever, never wanting to stumble them by any deeds we do, even if we know they are not wrong.
I realize this encompasses much more than just music, but it helps you see how a mature Christian molds their conduct and what they view as right and wrong in all things including music.
As far as religious music goes. Jehovah does not like lies, and he does not like pagan traditions to be mixed with holy worship to him, and he tells us that we need to worship him with spirit and truth in accurate knowledge.
So any form of religious music that may have false religious ideas, that promulgates falsehood, and or is not accurate is not appropriate music, even if it is considered Christian. For example music that worships Jesus as God, that promotes idol worship in any form, including the cross, Christmas music that mixes pagan traditions under a guise of a "mass of Christ" etc:
"No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons."-1 Corinthians 10:20-21.
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.
"And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment."Philippians 1:9.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't forbid any music/movies. Rather they are trained with the Bible to distinguish both right and wrong and make entertainment decisions based on a sound Christian conscience, recognizing that the conscience of one person differs from that of another. So while a certain form of entertainment might not necessarily be bad, one Christian, because of a weak, or overly sensitive conscience, may not view it as okay, that is to be respected, and another Christian that is more mature may view same thing as okay, the Christian with the overly sensitive conscience shouldn't be judging the other Christian as to their form of entertainment. Although it is better to avoid it if it stumbles them.
For example a newly converted Christian may have such a sensitive conscience that they judge all forms of entertainment as wrong. While extreme and unnecessary a mature Christian acknowledges their viewpoint and doesn't interfere with their conscience. While a mature Christian sees no problem having a TV in their home and viewing appropriate TV programs that are not in conflict with Christian morals.
Here are a few scriptures that should guide us in selecting entertainment and judging others as to what they select:
"Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one;
He hates anyone who loves violence."
-Psalm 11:5.
A Christian would avoid all forms of entertainment that glorifies violence. It is something that Jehovah detests.
"O you who love Jehovah, hate what is bad."-Psalm 97:10.
It is not simply enough to love Jehovah, one must develop a hatred of what Jehovah hates. Sexual immorality, spiritsm in all of its forms, violence, hatred, racism, etc.
"Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats only vegetables. Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand."-Romans 14:1-4.
This is talking of a newly converted Christian, because of being new, and having an untrained and thus a weak conscience considers it a sin to eat any form of meat. They should avoid meat in order not to offend their conscience, but they should not go beyond their limit of judging and condemn their brother if their brother (or sister's) conscience allows them to eat meat, as there is nothing wrong in God's eyes in doing so. This would apply in all areas of life. There are things a certain newly converted person may view as wrong, and that is okay. A mature Christian accepts them with their weakness in faith and does not judge them. But the newly converted person, with a weak conscience has no right to condemn or judge their brother if because of a fully-developed mature Christian conscience they see no problem in whatever it may be.
"All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person."-1 Corinthians 10:23-24.
Paul here acknowledges that if a trained Christian conscience allows the Christian to do things then they are free to do them, they are lawful. But it may not always be advantageous to do them. And that is where a Christian differs widely from the world. Instead of viewing something as their right, without considering the other person Paul acknowledges that while all things are lawful, not all things are advantageous, and then we are told to seek the interest of the other person first.
Now here is something else to consider he goes on to talk about eating meat from a meat market. Much of this meat would have been from animals scarified to false gods and idols. Something detestable. But since God created everything, a Christian is clear to eat the meat sold in the meat market, no matter if it was used first in some pagan ritual, saying a prayer over it sanctifying it with thanksgiving to Jehovah:
"Eat whatever is sold in a meat market, making no inquiry because of your conscience, for “to Jehovah belong the earth and everything in it.” If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, making no inquiry on account of your conscience. But if anyone says to you, “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat because of the one who told you and because of conscience. I do not mean your own conscience, but that of the other person. For why should my freedom be judged by another person’s conscience?"-1 Corinthians 10:25-29.
But if you notice he then tells the person that if an unbeliever may be stumbled because of what the believer is doing it is better to avoid doing it even if there is nothing wrong with it, on account of the conscience of the unbeliever. Jesus himself did this all the time. We should always be sensitive to the conscience of a newly converted person, and of the conscience of an unbeliever, never wanting to stumble them by any deeds we do, even if we know they are not wrong.
I realize this encompasses much more than just music, but it helps you see how a mature Christian molds their conduct and what they view as right and wrong in all things including music.
As far as religious music goes. Jehovah does not like lies, and he does not like pagan traditions to be mixed with holy worship to him, and he tells us that we need to worship him with spirit and truth in accurate knowledge.
So any form of religious music that may have false religious ideas, that promulgates falsehood, and or is not accurate is not appropriate music, even if it is considered Christian. For example music that worships Jesus as God, that promotes idol worship in any form, including the cross, Christmas music that mixes pagan traditions under a guise of a "mass of Christ" etc:
"No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons."-1 Corinthians 10:20-21.
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.
"And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment."Philippians 1:9.
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Nimos
Well-Known Member
Good question, don't really have a complete answer to that.
I think a lot of this obviously collide with freedom issues, so it is a huge discussion to be honest, but good post, I like it
Gargovic Malkav
Well-Known Member
Not a fan of Dutch folk music eh?
I don't get why you don't enjoy the sensation of blood leaking out of your ears...
Though I do know songs that sound about as nonsensical, I've never heard of a song with the lyrics you've posted..
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Do you think the majority of people are capable of distinguish reality from none reality, meaning that me as a person, can watch a movie with a lot of violence in and simply see it as entertainment and something that is made up and has nothing to do with reality?
So there is no distinction between entertainment and not? Because I personally is against violence, but I do enjoy a good war movie or whatever.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
Notice the scripture did not say anyone practicing violence. It says anyone that loves violence God detests. So it would be inappropriate to develop a love of violence whether it be in the Roman stadiums of old where gladiators fought and killed each other, animals, and even innocent victims such as Christians, or if it was just simulated but just as graphic and life-like.
Here is a Proverb that comes to mind:
"There are six things that Jehovah hates;Yes, seven things that he detests: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil, A false witness who lies with every breath, And anyone sowing contentions among brothers."-Proverbs 6:16-19.
If Jehovah hates these things, would it really be appropriate to be filling our minds and our hearts with entertainment that is filled with it? There are very clearly certain forms of entertainment that are wrong. Others are not so clear-cut and you must allow your conscience to guide you in these matters.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
What if its in regards to history? Lets say a documentary about the 3rd Reich, Hitler, extermination camps. Obviously people don't like it, but it does have some educational and historical value doesn't it. But would that be fine?