Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

[Sgt. Pepper]

I didn't quote scripture, i gave 2 verse numbers and apparently they really upset you because you know the scripture to which they relate and chose to think for Jesus... Interesting

FYI, i have read 3 bibles cover to cover and several other snippets (can you say the same?) but feel free to dis what you don't know. I don't interpret as it suites me, i go by what is actually written

I'm sure that you're aware that it is wise to take everything the Bible says with a grain of salt, as it is riddled with multiple contradictions and plagiarized stories from ancient pagan religions, such as Greek mythology. FYI, I've given examples in my previous posts here and here. Lastly, I'm also sure that you'll agree with me that no one should attempt to derive their understanding of morality from the Bible. I believe it's actually moral to reject the biblical God.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Quit trying to play bleeding heart, buddy, you're anything but.
Like I implied earlier - start to appreciate your own wretchedness before you start attempting to define rectitude from iniquity.
...anyone who claims that they're in good moral standing, hasn't got a single clue.

"Oh, so you think the Holocaust was bad, and that Hitler was morally wrong to do it? Quit with the bleeding heart nonsense.
Appreciate your own wretchedness before you start attempting to define rectitude from iniquity.
Clearly, you are not in good moral standing, therefore you cannot possibly make moral judgements about anything."

Are you ever going to make an actual, cogent argument? Or are you just going to continue with this silly "babies first religious apologia but with a big boy thesaurus" nonsense?

 

[DNB]

"Oh, so you think the Holocaust was bad, and that Hitler was morally wrong to do it? Quit with the bleeding heart nonsense.
Appreciate your own wretchedness before you start attempting to define rectitude from iniquity.
Clearly, you are not in good moral standing, therefore you cannot possibly make moral judgements about anything."

Are you ever going to make an actual, cogent argument? Or are you just going to continue with this silly "babies first religious apologia but with a big boy thesaurus" nonsense?

So, you were able to find the copy & paste functions, good start.
Now try formulating an original thought on your own.
We'll consider profundity in the next lesson...

 

[Hockeycowboy]

In my opinion, all you have to do is read the Bible (the Old Testament in particular) to see that a person should never derive their morality from it. For example, "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9), God's order to kill witches (Exodus 22:18), and God's order to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2–3). According to the Bible, God told the Israelites, "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’" (I Samuel 15:3). That's not mentioning the biblical story about God committing global genocide by drowning humanity (aside from Noah and his family) in a worldwide flood because he is royally pi**ed off about how wicked mankind behaves. So he decides to kill off mankind and start over.

Furthermore, the Bible teaches that God is capable of hatred in addition to wrath and jealousy. Christians, in my opinion, deceive themselves by focusing entirely on his purported love and kindness while disregarding the other scriptures depicting his hatred, anger, wrath, and jealousy. And according to Genesis 6:6-7, God Almighty regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air.

The Bible contains several other verses that mention God's regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). The Bible also mentions God changing his mind about bringing disasters down on his own people as punishment for their transgressions against him (Jeremiah 26:13; 1 Chronicles 21:15; Joel 2:13). For the record, Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, and Joel 2:13 coincide with Isaiah 45:7 (NIV), which states, "I form the light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things." Also, the New King James Version uses the word "calamity," and the King James Version uses the word "evil" instead of "disaster" or "calamity." The KJV essentially states that God creates evil.

Speaking as a former Christian and survivor of childhood abuse, I see God as a narcissistic and abusive parent who only "loves" you when you do or say exactly what they want you to do. And you think that if you don't make them angry, they won't hurt you, but you're not completely sure because they have an extremely violent temper and are known to lash out in anger. So, if you disobey them and make them angry with you, then there will be hell to pay.

That isn't a relationship based on unconditional love, but rather one based on fear and mistrust. If God exists, then I don't believe that he is worthy of my respect and reverence, let alone my love and worship. I do believe, however, that he has earned my contempt. If God exists, then he can go to hell. He obviously doesn't think I'm worth his time, and I now don't think he's worth mine. I also see God as a sadistic and psychopathic monster who delights in inflicting pain and torturing people, as well as in causing total chaos and disasters in order to inflict pain and kill people. I don't see him as loving and just.

I reread the Bible without rose-colored glasses after leaving Christianity, and I no longer believe that anyone should take their understanding of morality (or love, mercy, and justice) from the Bible. In my opinion, the God of the Bible has a sadistic mentality of "Do as I say, not as I do," making him the most hypocritical (detestable and barbarous) figure known to mankind. And this article, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits," has several other examples of violence in the Bible. Despite my criticism of the Bible and assertion that it should not be relied on for moral guidance, I believe that what the Bible says should be taken with a grain of salt. As far as I'm concerned, it has many contradictions in it (see links below), as well as a few stories of Jesus Christ that were copied and adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions by his most devout followers, as I explained in other posts, such as this one.

101 Clear Contradictions In The Bible

10 Christ-Like Figures that Predate Jesus

The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence

BibViz Project-Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

I'm sure that you're aware that it is wise to take everything the Bible says with a grain of salt, as it is riddled with multiple contradictions and plagiarized stories from ancient pagan religions, such as Greek mythology. FYI, I've given examples in my previous posts here and here. Lastly, I'm also sure that you'll agree with me that no one should attempt to derive their understanding of morality from the Bible. I believe it's actually moral to reject the biblical God.

Wow!

First of all, I hope you doing well.

If I were to answer all of these accusations individually…which I could, but…I’d be here till next year!

One answer, though, would cover quite a few. Which is simply that death is RIP’ing. I know you don’t believe that due to your genuine otherworldly experiences, so we’re sorta at an impasse with each other in that category.

But, now bear with me, but if as Ecclesiastes 9:5, et. al., state that the dead really are in a non-awareness state, and the Bible writers knew that…that death is like a sleep, a state in which there is no conscious existence…and also believed that these ones will at some future time be restored to life (Job 14:13-15)…then those Bible writers could be sincere in saying that some of God’s greatest qualities are love, compassion, and mercy.

Psalm 86:15;
Deuteronomy 4:31;
Exodus 34:6,7;
James 5:11;
1John 4:8;
Etc., etc.


They couldn’t honestly say that, if they thought that at death, the wicked were being tormented. But they did.

In fact, if I’m not mistaken, you’ve never experienced any spirit entity claiming to be in a tormented / suffering state… have you?

What do you think is behind (the source of) the following experiences, then:
One moment, please... ?
Seems as if some kind of intelligence is trying to mislead…

I don’t want to upset or offend you.
How can I say this?…
Notice, I don’t say that “you claim”; I say that “they [these spirits] claim”.
I believe you; I don’t trust / believe them… i don’t think they are being honest with you. (Or for that matter, those religious individuals mention in the article who saw “souls falling into hell”.) These entities have motives…

IMO, they’re the main source behind the Bible being the most attacked religious book in the world!

And Christianity being the most divided religion!
I mean when you look at the facts: Islam has what, about seventy to eighty different sects / branches? Judaism has a similar amount; Shinto has 3 (years ago, I thought I read about 100); Buddhism about 18.
But Christendom? Into the thousands! Some estimates say up to 40,000! Order of magnitudes more than any other! What better way for a powerful enemy, if they can’t kill it, then make counterfeits of the original?

I hope this made some sense…

I’ll address some more of this later: I gotta go.. it’s been a long day.

You take care.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So, you were able to find the copy & paste functions, good start.
Now try formulating an original thought on your own.
We'll consider profundity in the next lesson...

Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[ChristineM]

...interpretation requires wisdom - lacking perception is shameful.

Not so, interpretation required an inagination geared to fantasy.

And i am very aware of the horrors of the bible, in such case i wish my perception of it were muted

But i guess interpretation makes it easier for you

 

[ChristineM]

I've lost count how many times that I've read the Bible back to back.
I also offered a counter text, and paraphrased several others - which part are you not getting by accusing me of being an eisegete, or having ulterior motives other than rightly dividing God's word?
Your familiarity and comprehension of the Bible is what appears to be lacking or defective, I would assert.

The verses i identified counter your counter. And i see no gospel according to god on the bible. Perhaps you see it because of a keen imaginary interpretation.

Assert what you want, it's a typical reaction to fire ad homonym when you are caught out not loving your neighbour

 

[ChristineM]

Welcome to the ignore list.

I don't use ignore often but today he's earned two.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm sure that you're aware that it is wise to take everything the Bible says with a grain of salt, as it is riddled with multiple contradictions and plagiarized stories from ancient pagan religions, such as Greek mythology. FYI, I've given examples in my previous posts here and here. Lastly, I'm also sure that you'll agree with me that no one should attempt to derive their understanding of morality from the Bible. I believe it's actually moral to reject the biblical God.

A like that deserves a WINNER

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Welcome to the ignore list.

I don't use ignore often but today he's earned two.

Make that three.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The verses i identified counter your counter. And i see no gospel according to god on the bible. Perhaps you see it because of a keen imaginary interpretation.

Assert what you want, it's a typical reaction to fire ad homonym when you are caught out not loving your neighbour

It's not just loving your neighbor that has been ignored, but also treating others the way one wants to be treated and turning the other cheek, not to mention loving and praying for an enemy. To be quite honest, some of the most hateful, obnoxious, and prejudiced people I've ever met are Christians, and the majority are evangelicals. Grant it, there are some Christians who do practice what they preach and genuinely live by what they profess, but I consider them to be the exception, not the rule. The majority of the Christians I've met either in person or online are very shrewd because they hide their hatred and religious intolerance behind the pretense of "speaking God's truth" and "spreading the gospel." Some, on the other hand, don't bother to hide their true colors while preaching about "God's love" and how they "hate the sin but love the sinner." They are deliberately rude and obnoxious, and they put other people down. Christians are called to be ambassadors for Christ, yet the majority of them tarnish their personal character and Christian witness by how they behave and treat others, and they don't care that they're severely damaging the public perception of Christians and Christianity in general.

 

[ChristineM]

To be quite honest, some of the most hateful, obnoxious, and prejudiced people I've ever met are Christians

I absolutely agree with that.

Grant it, there are some Christians who do practice what they preach and genuinely live by what they profess, but I consider them to be the exception, not the rule.

True, my best friend is a Christian, a rare nice person. She is coming to visit next week so i expect a few good discussions ;-)

As for prejudice... The reason i left the church is because of prejudice against disability, in my case, dislexia. It hurt at first but i came to see it waz one of the better things that have happened to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Quit trying to play bleeding heart, buddy, you're anything but.
Like I implied earlier - start to appreciate your own wretchedness before you start attempting to define rectitude from iniquity.
...anyone who claims that they're in good moral standing, hasn't got a single clue.

That really doesn't answer the question or address the point.

I find your view of humanity to be rather disturbing and potentially harmful.
"Quit try to play bleeding heart, buddy" says the Christian believer. Sounds just like something Jesus would say. If that's what your religion has to offer, I'll take a hard pass.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So, you were able to find the copy & paste functions, good start.
Now try formulating an original thought on your own.
We'll consider profundity in the next lesson...

You're not fooling anyone here. It's rather obvious you don't want to address the actual point.

 

[Copernicus]

Mohammed defines Islam, Buddha Buddhism, Confucius Confucianism, and Jesus Christ Christianity, obviously.

None of these gentlemen is around to define anything, and, as their self-appointed spokesperson, you don't get to define anything. Lexicographers do, and they base their definitions on how speakers of the language actually use words. If just anyone can make up definitions, then anyone else is free to ignore them.

 

[DNB]

Welcome to the ignore list.

Thank you!

 

[DNB]

Not so, interpretation required an inagination geared to fantasy.

And i am very aware of the horrors of the bible, in such case i wish my perception of it were muted

But i guess interpretation makes it easier for you

Interpretation requires wisdom, Christine, like seriously!

 

[DNB]

The verses i identified counter your counter. And i see no gospel according to god on the bible. Perhaps you see it because of a keen imaginary interpretation.

Assert what you want, it's a typical reaction to fire ad homonym when you are caught out not loving your neighbour

Again, Christine, interpretation requires wisdom - when we are faced with two seemingly contradictory precepts, the art of exegesis requires harmonizing the two and not having one supersede the other, like you appeared to do.
We both brought up valid Biblical texts (they weren't fabricated), therefore, either the Gospels and Epistles are conflicted, or each statement must be taken in context.

If you met a man who was constantly vulgar, crass, indecent and lewd, would you introduce him to one of your single girlfriends under the premise that it's not right to judge, or would you tell all your friends to stay clear?
Obviously the latter.
Jesus mandated to not judge hypocritically or self-righteously, ...but to still be as wise as serpents when discerning right from wrong and in recognizing trouble-makers from peace-makers.

 

[DNB]

That really doesn't answer the question or address the point.

I find your view of humanity to be rather disturbing and potentially harmful.
"Quit try to play bleeding heart, buddy" says the Christian believer. Sounds just like something Jesus would say. If that's what your religion has to offer, I'll take a hard pass.

It's extremely spurious to listen to God haters scream for justice, when most of them are gratuitously aggressive and definitively mean-spirited.
This is what I sensed from whoever it was that I made the response to (i forget the name), and what appears to be the case for most of them.
They're hypocritical and virtue signaling in my opinion - I don't mind rebuking that.

 

[DNB]

You're not fooling anyone here. It's rather obvious you don't want to address the actual point.

Sorry, would that be why does God allow so much suffering, and even mandate or inflict it Himself?
I did, and I got nothing but a punkish answer from the guy - reasoning wasn't an option anymore, in my opinion.
If you care to read the post that elicited the above response, we can address what you might agree or disagree with. ...I don't remember all the details right now in order to recapitulate what I said.