Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

 

[ChristineM]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

Prison statistics, medical statistics and personal experience shout that I can agree with that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do not think that Christians understand how bad the "You gist wanna be aitheists so that you can sin" is. If we as atheists do something wrong it is up to us to make it right. Christianity teaches that if you sin all you need to do is to apologize to God and everything is okay. In fact many sects disparage "works". Just say "I'm sorry God, I won't never do that agin" and you are fine. That sounds much easier than righting the wrongs that one is responsible for.

 

[Heyo]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

I'd say no - for the same reason. Theism may lead to immoral behavior, but if it doesn't have to, I don't feel justified to answer "yes".
What I'm sure of is that theism doesn't prevent immoral behavior - contrary to the claims of theists.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Two stupid questions don’t add up to a sensible one, in this instance.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Do some people do immoral stuff. Yup. Id have to say theists atheists Scooby dooists all behave badly at times unfortunately

 

[Audie]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

If it's immoral to make things up and state them
as fact, creationism has a morality problem.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'd say no - for the same reason. Theism may lead to immoral behavior, but if it doesn't have to, I don't feel justified to answer "yes".

But the question wasn't "does theism have to lead to immoral behaviour?"

 

[Ella S.]

I don't think so. When theists do something that I would consider immoral, it is not normally because of their theism. I can't think of any immoral action that I have ever seen that was justified by theism.

At least, not theism alone. I have seen plenty of what I would consider to be vicious acts committed out of a desire to adhere to some religious doctrine, scripture, or interpretation, as well as a few inspired by mystical or spiritual experiences.

I wouldn't say that religion in general leads to immoral behavior, either, though. It can, but it depends on the person and the religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think so. When theists do something that I would consider immoral, it is not normally because of their theism. I can't think of any immoral action that I have ever seen that was justified by theism.

At least, not theism alone. I have seen plenty of what I would consider to be vicious acts committed out of a desire to adhere to some religious doctrine, scripture, or interpretation, as well as a few inspired by mystical or spiritual experiences.

I wouldn't say that religion in general leads to immoral behavior, either, though. It can, but it depends on the person and the religion.

There's no such thing as "theism alone," though. Any real-world example of theism is going to be a belief in a specific god - or set of gods - with specific characteristics, back story, etc. More often than not, the theism will come as a package deal with a theistic organized religion.

Personally, I'm good with including any belief, behaviour, or whatnot that relies on acceptance of the existence of one or more gods as part of the scope of theism's impact.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Just say "I'm sorry God, I won't never do that agin" and you are fine. That sounds much easier than righting the wrongs that one is responsible for.

There is not much point in saying "sorry" if you don't mean it.
Our relationship with G-d is a serious one, and it is not always
easy to distinguish between hypocrisy and human weakness.

 

[Heyo]

But the question wasn't "does theism have to lead to immoral behaviour?"

What's the difference?
Simply answering "yes" is false if there are cases where it doesn't lead to immoral behavior.
The question also wasn't "Can theism lead to immoral behavior?".
The best you could possibly do is a "Yes, but ...".

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is not much point in saying "sorry" if you don't mean it.
Our relationship with G-d is a serious one, and it is not always
easy to distinguish between hypocrisy and human weakness.

People almost always mean it at that time. But people forget, and they very often repeat past mistakes. But even if they never do it again, what good does that do for the victim of your sin? Your beliefs still lead to more immoral behavior if you think that apologizing to God is good enough.

 

[muhammad_isa]

People almost always mean it at that time. But people forget, and they very often repeat past mistakes. But even if they never do it again, what good does that do for the victim of your sin? Your beliefs still lead to more immoral behavior if you think that apologizing to God is good enough.

Well, it depends on the severity of the sin.
Many sins damage ourselves more than another.

Serious sins need more than "sorry" .. they need a serious commitment not to repeat them.
If one does not take it seriously, then one is in danger of failure.

What is failure? It is not straightforward. Social isolation, for example, is no paradise.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, it depends on the severity of the sin.
Many sins damage ourselves more than another.

Serious sins need more than "sorry" .. they need a serious commitment not to repeat them.
If one does not take it seriously, then one is in danger of failure.

What is failure? It is not straightforward. Social isolation, for example, is no paradise.

Please, now you are merely trying to use a No True Scotsman fallacy. And you still have not deal with the fact that a theistic belief like you have does nothing for the victim. Atheism is more moral even if you use your logical fallacy.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What's the difference?
Simply answering "yes" is false if there are cases where it doesn't lead to immoral behavior.

Ah - I think you're reading the question differently than I am.

I'm taking "theism" as the social phenomenon in general; each individual theist is one component of theism overall.

OTOH, sounds like you're taking "theism" as the state of a hypothetical specific person.

Both perspectives are probably valid. I probably should have made the OP question more precise to get rid of ambiguity, but I was going for a cutesy callback to the other thread.

The question also wasn't "Can theism lead to immoral behavior?".
The best you could possibly do is a "Yes, but ...".

The way I understand the question, if the answer to "has theism ever led to immoral behaviour?" is "yes," then the answer to "does theism lead to immoral behaviour?" has to be "yes, at least some of the time."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, it depends on the severity of the sin.
Many sins damage ourselves more than another.

Serious sins need more than "sorry" .. they need a serious commitment not to repeat them.
If one does not take it seriously, then one is in danger of failure.

What is failure? It is not straightforward. Social isolation, for example, is no paradise.

Depending what the theist believes about God, the theist may not have any problem at all with serious sins.

For instance, theists who believe that their God hates gay people or apostates can think that they're justified when they engage in cruelty and violence, and never seek absolution or forgiveness from anyone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

Well, Christianity did teach me to hate myself amd other queers and to be an insufferable jerk around others.
I'm not sure if theism in general works though, especially with things like Deism that lack the dogma and "divine" instruction.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, Christianity did teach me to hate myself amd other queers and to be an insufferable jerk around others.
I'm not sure if theism in general works though, especially with things like Deism that lack the dogma and "divine" instruction.

By number of adherents, Christianity and Islam just by themselves are about two thirds of "theism in general."

The impact of Deism on "theism in general" is less than that of some of the smaller Christian denominations.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

In general, I would say yes, and my opinion is based on my thirty years as a Christian and the years before that while growing up in a family where I was abused by Christian parents, and I grew up in a staunchly conservative Christian community where racism towards minorities was very common. I've also attended a few evangelical churches where the pastor and other churchgoers have made racist remarks about minorities, and some of these Christians have targeted, harassed, and threatened me because I voted for Biden and opposed Trump. Honestly, the most misogynistic, male chauvinistic, cruelest, hateful, and bigoted people I've ever met in person and also online are conservative evangelical Christians. Having said all of that, I know a few of these Christians who are truly kind and caring people (such as my beloved husband), but I definitely consider them to be the exception rather than the rule.