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Where did we get the idea it's impossible for God to not sin?
So when Moses reasoned with God to change his mind to not destroy the Israelites, God was just toying with him the first time?
Shermana said:Where did we get the idea it's impossible for God to not sin?
Shermana said:So when Moses reasoned with God to change his mind to not destroy the Israelites, God was just toying with him the first time?
James 1:13 says "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Numbers 23:19 says "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
It is impossible for God to sin since it is it nature never to sin. He cannot resist his nature since he is perfect, and cannot be tempted by anything. Will is only free when it has the capacity to be changed. A number of Scriptures say that God does not change. So God does not have free will.
It is impossible for God to lie. God cannot choose to lie.
You are referring to Exodus, chapter 32, where Moses reasoned with God. When God said that he would destroy the Israelites, he already knew about the factors that Moses mentioned in Exodus, chapter 32, and already knew that he was not going to kill the Israelites. Thus, it would not have made any sense for him to say that he was going to kill the Israelites when he knew that he had no intention of doing so.
An Internet definition for the word "will" is "the mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action."
The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines the word "choose" as "to select freely and after consideration." God never considers anything since he has always known everything, and has always had the same nature.
That means that God could not have intended to kill the Israelites, and then decided, based upon new information, to change his mind. That is because no information could be new to God.
God never says "Let me think about that," or "let me consider that," or "I should not have done that."
If a God inspired parts of the Bible, apparently, he did not inspire Genesis, chapter 32 since God cannot decide to do anything after considering various options.
Shermana said:Where does it say it's impossible for him to lie, without any translation issues involved?
Shermana said:How do you know he had no intention of doing so?
Shermana said:Where does it say that no information could be new to God exactly? Why would God even send Angels to Sodom to verify the rumors he heard about it? Where does it say he's totally Omniscient exactly?
Shermana said:How do you know He doesn't take a milisecond to process things?
Shermana said:Okay, fair enough with Hebrews 6 (I don't go by the Book of Hebrews or any of the "Pauline" writings I should add), but your verse with Numbers 23:19, as I already demonstrated, in no way says it is impossible for him to do so.
Shermanq said:So do you think there's a blatant contradiction with why he sent Angels to Sodom to confirm what he had heard about it.......
The verse gives ample evidence that God cannot lie, especially when considered along with some other Scriptures.
Which verse, Numbers 23:19? It does not in any way say he cannot lie. It just says he doesn't.
Yes.
Then you're basically stuck, either you address the contradiction as two different irreconciliable aspects which thus render you unable to make a blanket judgment on the Theology or you accept that there's a possibility of the Theological connotation that can be reconciliable.
he Scriptures that I quoted say that God sees everything, that he watches everyone's deeds, that he knows what people are going to say before they say it, and that he fills the entire earth. It also says that he chose who he will save before the foundations of the world. A God like that would not need angels for anything.
You don't necessarily have to have a contradiction. God sees everything because he has Agents to do the seeing. Choosing who he will save in no way violates the idea of Free Will. If I make a choice of what I'm going to buy at the market rather than do impulse shopping, does that mean I sacrificed my own free will? No it does not.
God would have already known what Moses was going to say before he said it. Therefore, he could not have intended to kill the Israelites, and then have changed his mind. No news on earth is new to God.
First off, it could be interpreted that he already knew which souls he would have saved, not necesarily which persons those souls are incarnated as. I see no reason why the text should be read that God was just joshing Moses about how he would make a whole new people with him as the Patriarch.
Why? Why would this particular action be exempt from causality?Yes. He changes His mind all the time in the Bible. The ability to change your mind about what you're going to do is a natural consequence of free will.
No. Who you are determines your capacity to will anything. God, according to Scripture, has not and cannot change who He is.
An all knowing and planned God being would lack free-will because he already knows all of his actions already.
determinism is not at odds with free will either. Free will is the act of determining your own actions - it is deterministic in nature.
If I know what will be on TV tonight, does that mean I took someone's free will away? no. ... and if I know what will happen through all eternity, does that take away free will? no.
Shermana said:Which verse, Numbers 23:19? It does not in any way say he cannot lie. It just says he doesn't.
Shermana said:I see no reason why the text should be read that God was just joshing Moses about how he would make a whole new people with him as the Patriarch.
Shermana said:God sees everything because he has Agents to do the seeing.
Shermana said:Why would God even send Angels to Sodom to verify the rumors he heard about it?
biblestudytools.com said:He [God] was tempted by the Israelites at Massah and Meribah, from which those places had their names, who by their murmuring, distrust and unbelief, proved and tried his patience and his power; and so he may be, and has been tempted by others in a like way; he may be tempted by evil men, and with evil things, but he cannot be tempted "to evil", as the Ethiopic version renders it; he is proof against all such temptations: he cannot be tempted by anything in himself, who is pure and holy, or by any creature or thing without him, to do any sinful action.
Shermana said:Which verse, Numbers 23:19? It does not in any way say he cannot lie. It just says he doesn't.
Shermana said:I see no reason why the text should be read that God was just joshing Moses about how he would make a whole new people with him as the Patriarch.
Shermana said:God sees everything because he has Agents to do the seeing.
Shermana said:Why would God even send Angels to Sodom to verify the rumors he heard about it?
biblestudytools.com said:He [God] was tempted by the Israelites at Massah and Meribah, from which those places had their names, who by their murmuring, distrust and unbelief, proved and tried his patience and his power; and so he may be, and has been tempted by others in a like way; he may be tempted by evil men, and with evil things, but he cannot be tempted "to evil", as the Ethiopic version renders it; he is proof against all such temptations: he cannot be tempted by anything in himself, who is pure and holy, or by any creature or thing without him, to do any sinful action.
Agnostic75 said:God never says "Let me think about that," or "let me consider that," or "I should not have done that."
Shermana said:How do you know He doesn't take a milisecond to process things?
letusreason.org said:Let Us Reason Ministries
The Bible describes God as unchangeable, eternal, immutable always existing. Whatever he reveals of himself as is eternal . All his attributes are eternal, as they flow from his infinite nature who’s essence is also eternal, unchangeable.
God himself says to the Son in Heb.1:10" And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.......and they shall be changed: but thou art the same ( quote of Psalm 102:25). Mal.3:6 "I the Lord do not change." The God of the scriptures is presented as eternal in his nature, unchanging.
blueletterbible.org said:The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
Free will is not the ability to change - it is the ability to control your own actions. An action that comes from will is an action that comes from within yourself - that is self-caused, rather than other-caused. It means we can "act" rather than just "re-act" - the different between "act" and "react" is free will.