Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Doesn't sound like a perfect being who doesn't know beforehand the best decision.
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Does the Christian God have free will?
- Thread starter Agnostic75
- Start date
Doesn't sound like a perfect being who doesn't know beforehand the best decision.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
An omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient God who needs servants to spy for him?
Sodom and Gomorrah were taken care of alright. They were sent to the atmosphere, flipped upside down, and sent crashing back to earth for their sins. Complete obliteration. To this day, the lowest point on the earth's surface is in and around the dead sea, the exact location of those towns. I wonder why that is
yoda89
On Xtended Vacation
Determinism simply states that if a entity is affected by X then it will have a new single identity. All things have a single identity. A cat cannot be a dog. A tree cannot be a telephone. Determinism has many branches. If they do not have a single identity they cannot exist.
If you are on TV it is do to some cause which caused you to come on TV. It is not free will but a cost an instinct. We cannot only change our perspectives not cause of events. As we know nothing is infinite in a single state. Determinism cause them to change into new objects.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
If God is perfect, and completely good, he has no choice except to do good, moral things. Such being the case, why should he be complimented for doing things that he must do because of his nature?
yoda89
On Xtended Vacation
Aren't you on vacation lol. I don't really know you but I saw that post
Free-will is something that is really still only philosophical at the moment. My current belief is that free-will is not really possible we only have control of our thoughts. If you have anything that to counter that belief. I would be more than willing to listen
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
Control of your thoughts is free will. You can freely choose to disagree with whoever you want to.
yoda89
On Xtended Vacation
Yes this is a good counter argument. But if the concept of original determinism and casualty are sought. There is only reaction to instinct. Cause thus effect we give into impulses. We are merely just doing. While I do not like the concept of fate. It's still a valid point about lack of free-will.
We are just merely in a dream or life is but a ride.
Isn't there enough complexity, and hence chaos, going on within our brains/minds that cause/effect cannot be traced with any amount of certainty? Isn't the assumption of certainty just that--an assumption?
Is there nothing we can do to manage the chaos produced by the complexity within our minds? Isn't this how we gain control of our minds and gain free will?
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
This thread is about God, not humans.
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
I was responding to yoda, not the OP. In regards to the OP; the only way God can have free will is if he isn't omniscient.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
Ok, thanks.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
1 Chronicles 28:9 says:
"And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever."
That was King David speaking.
A God who "searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought" would not have needed angels to tell him what was going on in Sodom.
"And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever."
That was King David speaking.
A God who "searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought" would not have needed angels to tell him what was going on in Sodom.
But that would ruin the stories.
yoda89
On Xtended Vacation
I thought the discussion had moved on to man perception of reality and our free-will. Because its a pretty no brainer if he/they are said to that cannot be omniscient. In which there are too many flaws to count
If there was alien entity. Those that are friendly that mankind see eventually if we don't wipe ourselves out which is more likely at this point. It may be possible that it could see all potential outcomes however not choose it. For example if it were playing poker it could see every single outcome. However not know which cards are yet to be dealt. Including seeing ordering of drinks and others actions. We are capable of this but to a limited sense.
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Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Why should God get credit for keeping his word? He is perfect, and cannot lie, and is not able to change his nature. Credit should only be given to a being when he has the option to sin. God does not have the option to sin.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
If God is not omniscient, he would still not have free will regarding his character if he is not able to lie. The Bible says that God is perfect, and unchanging, and cannot lie. His methods sometimes change, but his character never changes.
In my opinion, the God of the Bible might not be omniscient, and omnipotent, but he must be omnibenevolent since the words "perfect, and unchanging, and cannot lie" imply omnibenevolence regarding his character.