Does the Bible mention Islam?

[CG Didymus]

This has been explained in all the Holy Books in many different ways, it has now been made more clear. Abdul baha explains the 5 levels of Spirit and how they interact.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 143-145

The levels of Spirit are Vegatable, Animal, Human, Spirit of Faith and Holy Spirit.

We are born of the Human Spirit, the Messengers are born of the Holy Spirit and to connect we need the Spirit of Faith.

This explains what it is to be born again. One has to connect with the Holy Spirit with the Spirit of Faith. To do this we have to search and make our choices.

Regards Tony

But Adrian is arguing that the Comforter can't be a spirit... it must be a physical person. So do you feel the Spirit of God within you? Does the Spirit guide you and teach you? Does this Spirit of God comfort you? If yes, then why can't the Christian "Comforter" actually be a spirit? Why can't it be part of God somehow? Like a little spiritual light from God that guides you through the dark? So can a spiritual essence from God indwell people? Did a spiritual essence from God descend on the Christians on Pentecost? If so, is this "Holy Spirit" real and is this "Holy Spirit" the "Comforter"?

To me it fits the story. I know that the Baha'is want this to be a prophecy about Muhammad and Baha'u'llah. Can Baha'is let it be both? Why do Baha'is have to reject that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter? I already know one good reason why you shouldn't. The next step would be is this Holy Spirit from God or is God? Christians took the latter explanation and then added Jesus into the God-head also. But, can't Baha'is let there be like a ray of light from God, that is called the Holy Spirit, to enter into the hearts of believers? It's from God. It's part of God, but not necessarily a separate being? Then same with Jesus, it would be like the Baha'is lamp analogy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The view of Rabbi Alkalai, the one who made this calculation was that the day of the redemption would be 100 years long, beginning in 1840 and ending in 1939. However, that Rabbi's view wasn't accepted by the majority of Rabbis, so eventually his movement petered out.

I would offer that the portal of Revelation lasted from 1844 to 1857 through the Bab, Baha'u'llah and entrusted to Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Tgus He did a good job, on to a good thought, maybe more should have looked at why he came to those conclusions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

. But who are the false teachers and false prophets of the Bible? If it's not you then who? The Christians themselves?

Yes, that is the wolf in sheeps clothing.

Islam or any other Faith would be seen as a wolf in wolfs clothing.

The false Doctrine has not made bad people, but it has blinded people, why else does Christ come on clouds and as a thief and hands the work over to others?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Adrian is arguing that the Comforter can't be a spirit... it must be a physical person. So do you feel the Spirit of God within you? Does the Spirit guide you and teach you? Does this Spirit of God comfort you? If yes, then why can't the Christian "Comforter" actually be a spirit? Why can't it be part of God somehow? Like a little spiritual light from God that guides you through the dark? So can a spiritual essence from God indwell people? Did a spiritual essence from God descend on the Christians on Pentecost? If so, is this "Holy Spirit" real and is this "Holy Spirit" the "Comforter"?

To me it fits the story. I know that the Baha'is what this to be a prophecy about Muhammad and Baha'u'llah. Can Baha'is let it be both? Why do Baha'is have to reject that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter? I already know one good reason why you shouldn't. The next step would be is this Holy Spirit from God or is God? Christians took the latter explanation and then added Jesus into the God-head also. But, can't Baha'is let there be like a ray of light from God, that is called the Holy Spirit, to enter into the hearts of believers? It's from God. It's part of God, but not necessarily a separate being? Then same with Jesus, it would be like the Baha'is lamp analogy.

The Guidance comes via the Messengers, we do not have direct revelation from God.

The Messengers are the Mediators.

Thus all my inspiration comes from all the Messengers, a Christain is motivated by Christ, a Baha'i is motivated by Christ and all the Mesengers, we ask of God in all God's Names.

Each person has their journey and our connection with the Spirit of Faith is our choice. It would make sense to stand up and walk out into the Sun in the day we live and not to try to picture the Sun on a day 2000 years ago.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bab was not a footnote, He was a Manifestation of God. The date of the return of Christ is 1844 because the Bab was the first of the Twin Manifestations of God who brought back the Christ Spirit and this ushered in the new cycle of religion called the Bahai Cycle, also called the Cycle of fulfillment, because it was the Cycle in which all the prophecies of the Adamic Cycle would be fulfilled.

I do not know why the Jews were expecting the Messiah around 1840-1843, but if I have time I might research that.

I thought the "footnote" thing would get you. And that's what I wanted to happen, because The Bab is very much in the background. If Christ returns in 1844, then The Bab is the promised return of Christ. But, he's not. He's the forerunner. Do Baha'is study and learn about the Bab? Do Baha'is read the Bayan? No, he's secondary. Is he a "manifestation"? Why, other than to Baha'is, does he need to be? Why not just a prophet heralding the great return of the King of Kings in 1863?

Now Baha'is have to find proof and support, not only for Baha'u'llah and Muhammad, but for a "twin" manifestation that are only a few years apart. Since Baha'i believe there were other "forerunners", why weren't they "manifestations"? Why this forerunner? I suppose there is verses in the Quran that say there will be two manifestations coming? To me, all the Bible references are a little weak. The Bab is the second of three "Woes"? Woes are mentioned more than just these three and no other times is it meant to be about the coming of a manifestation. But, rather, the coming of calamities and judgements from a wrathful God. And the Three Woes are filled with bad things happening, but Christ doesn't come on his white horse to conquer evil 'til later in Revelation. So it's tough for me to believe it.

Maybe not you, but one of the Baha'is should find out if the Jews were expecting their Messiah around 1844. With all those other forums and threads you're involved in, I wouldn't want you to go out of your way just for me. Let Adrian do it. He's probably got some time... in between doing his medical work and handling about a hundred threads he's started.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did a spiritual essence from God descend on the Christians on Pentecost? If so, is this "Holy Spirit" real and is this "Holy Spirit" the "Comforter"?

Abdul'baha explained this.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 106-107

To me this is the moment that the Disciples connected with the Spirit of Faith and realised that Christ never dies and is more than flesh.

That inspiration was Christ, the Holy Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

This silly 1844 stuff reminds me of Adventist theology.

Have you seen the Baha'i breakdown of all the dates and times from Daniel and Revelation? They make sound so easy. But, if it was that easy how could Christians deny that 1844 was the date? There's gotta be something that is missing there. I took a quick glance at the Willian Miller time-line and, as I recall, he uses the dates and times differently than the Baha'is to come up with 1844. But I do wonder why Christians aren't challenging the Baha'is on the accuracy of there dates and times.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

.....I wouldn't want you to go out of your way just for me. Let Adrian........

Or you could look.

Your faith is your faith and we all must search for our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Katzpur]

Uhhh, your logic must be broken. Logically, if a religion comes 6-8 centuries AFTER the last written work of a anthology, the logic rules against them. But, strictly speaking, the Bible does issue warnings against Islam. Telling people to beware of false prophets. Telling ppl that "even if an angel" told a gospel contrary to the one given they are under a curse. That pronouncement disqualifies both Mormonism and Islam.

So... how badly do you want Islam to be mentioned in the Bible?

Actually, Mormonism claims to be the same gospel preached by Jesus. Maybe it's the rest of Christianity that's teaching a different gospel.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Guidance comes via the Messengers, we do not have direct revelation from God.

The Messengers are the Mediators.

Thus all my inspiration comes from all the Messengers, a Christain is motivated by Christ, a Baha'i is motivated by Christ and all the Mesengers, we ask of God in all God's Names.

Each person has their journey and our connection with the Spirit of Faith is our choice. It would make sense to stand up and walk out into the Sun in the day we live and not to try to picture the Sun on a day 2000 years ago.

Regards Tony

Okay, then Christians, among several other things, are wrong about there being something called "The Holy Spirit", and that this spiritual being indwells them?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Have you seen the Baha'i breakdown of all the dates and times from Daniel and Revelation? They make sound so easy. But, if it was that easy how could Christians deny that 1844 was the date? There's gotta be something that is missing there. I took a quick glance at the Willian Miller time-line and, as I recall, he uses the dates and times differently than the Baha'is to come up with 1844. But I do wonder why Christians aren't challenging the Baha'is on the accuracy of there dates and times.

Because they are solid foundations buik in rock.

There is no more obvious proof of any Messengers. When I first read it I was amazed, did not need to dispute as there it is. I was lucky, I had no preconceived doctrine to put a spanner in the works.

Now if no Messages had happened....?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Or you could look.

Your faith is your faith and we all must search for our own selves.

Regards Tony

No, I'm not going to look. Baha'is need to cover their own bases. You guys say 1844 if the year that all religions prophesied about. What are the Jewish prophesies that point to that year?

 

[CG Didymus]

Because they are solid foundations buik in rock.

There is no more obvious proof of any Messengers. When I first read it I was amazed, did not need to dispute as there it is. I was lucky, I had no preconceived doctrine to put a spanner in the works.

Now if no Messages had happened....?

Regards Tony

I haven't seen any posts from Christians challenging it, but even if it's built out of rock, I'm sure they'll take dynamite and a jack-hammer and start trying to tear it down.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, then Christians, among several other things, are wrong about there being something called "The Holy Spirit", and that this spiritual being indwells them?

No, I did not say that.

We are not a perfect mirror. The Messengers are born a perfect polished mirror, thay always reflect and can be seen as the Holy Spirit, we see God reflected in them always.

We need the Spirit of Faith to clean our mirror and then each virtue and good deed can clean our mirror more.

This is where we find what is Christ, it is the power of change that comes from the heart, within.

Do you think you are but a puny form, when within you the universe is folded?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, I'm not going to look. Baha'is need to cover their own bases. You guys say 1844 if the year that all religions prophesied about. What are the Jewish prophesies that point to that year?

Then for 100 years we will have these conversations, or at least until we return to dust. Faith is ones own efforts.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I haven't seen any posts from Christians challenging it, but even if it's built out of rock, I'm sure they'll take dynamite and a jack-hammer and start trying to tear it down.

As history has shown certain people will want to do.

Personally I see from Baha'i that Love, Peace and Justice is what they will get in return.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, that is the wolf in sheeps clothing.

Islam or any other Faith would be seen as a wolf in wolfs clothing.

The false Doctrine has not made bad people, but it has blinded people, why else does Christ come on clouds and as a thief and hands the work over to others?

Regards Tony

A couple of things... It also says that all eyes will see him. I'm sure you have an explanation for that. The other is that sure coming in the "clouds" works for Baha'u'llah, but it also has to work for Muhammad and The Bab. Or, do Baha'is use it for all of them, or have different verses that refers to how they came?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, I did not say that.

We are not a perfect mirror. The Messengers are born a perfect polished mirror, thay always reflect and can be seen as the Holy Spirit, we see God reflected in them always.

We need the Spirit of Faith to clean our mirror and then each virtue and good deed can clean our mirror more.

This is where we find what is Christ, it is the power of change that comes from the heart, within.

Do you think you are but a puny form, when within you the universe is folded?

Regards Tony

But, does the Spirit indwell regular people, because that is what Jesus told his disciples. That the Spirit of Truth would be in them.

Now that you bring up the "perfect" polished mirrors, when was Abraham, Moses and even Muhammad perfectly polished mirrors? Why couldn't they be flawed like normal humans? And, since, with Abraham and Moses, there were flaws that were written about in the Bible about them?

 

[CG Didymus]

Then for 100 years we will have these conversations, or at least until we return to dust. Faith is ones own efforts.

Regards Tony

I'll take that as a "no", there is nothing in the Baha'i writings that focuses on how Jews also had calculated the dates and times and came up with 1844 as the date the Messiah will come. Now the problem is, with the Jews to coincide with the Baha'i Faith, they'd have to have the dates of Jesus, Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah all calculated. And, out of all of those, why would they focus on The Bab? Who were the rest of them? The chop liver's of manifestations? All those dates have to be in there. But I thought you guys did have some kind of chart with all kinds of dates and times and lines connecting everything?

 

[CG Didymus]

As history has shown certain people will want to do.

Personally I see from Baha'i that Love, Peace and Justice is what they will get in return.

Regards Tony

Well, since your Mom is a Christian and you attend a Church, has you attitude of giving them love, peace and justice worked? Because it must be tough once they ask you questions isn't it? How do you diplomatically and with love tell them that what they believe in is wrong? And, doesn't that mean that you have to chip away at their erroneous beliefs too?