Does science prove the existence of god?

[Orthodox]

Mr Spinkles,

I still have only limited time (grrrr...) but I will quickly highlight the ignorance of the skeptic websites position on irreducible complexity (IRC).

The fact is that many biological systems (such as the circulatory system etc) are made up of parts that serve no purpose by themself and can only decrease survival chances without the remainder of the system. Take the circulatory system (CS): The CS requires veins, arteries, capillaries, a heart (with functioning valves), lungs, a blood-clotting capability, and much more besides. Possesing a heart without already having something for it to pump is obviously a survival impediment to any creature. Likewise, a wild creature which possess a complete CS minus a blood-clotting ability is a suvival nightmare - one cut and the creature will bleed to death. This is a short example of a IRC system.

The above may or may not make sense, I haven't the time to check it. Nevertheless, I think the question at hand remains, "How did life get started?". I think you'd agree that the suggestion that the parts of an IRC system can have no survival advantage or original function before the first 'simple' organism. This first single celled life is itself IRC and cannot be the combination of various pre-life mechanisms brought together to form the first cell.

I may need to elucidate these points better. Should I? I am just in a major rush.....

orthodox

 

[HelpMe]

no problem at all, sry i wasn't clear enough.

i should of been singular(premise) as is the topic, my mistake.

it is absurd(imo) because science only deals with the observable, and makes no statements about the unobservable or unprovable.though these things may be proof of 'god' to you and me, it is not a habbit of science to include an invisible nonmeasurable being.scientists are generally out to prove that all we can see and measure is all that exists or ever has.


in messiah, shawn

 

[Ceridwen018]

Orthodox,

I fail to see where you're disagreeing with Spinkles, lol. Like you said, maybe you need to explain a little further.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

a wild creature which possess a complete CS minus a blood-clotting ability is a suvival nightmare

Tell me about it.

I'm not really enthusiastic about debating ID, Orthodox...just more unscientific arguments (like arguments from ignorance) and the like. No offense, but your example of the circulatory system was not very convincing--I think you should ask a non-ID ist professor of biology about how circulatory systems may have evolved. I think I'd rather just agree to disagree here.

 

[croak]

Okay, maybe some cell may have evolved. Okay, it may have joined with other cells. Okay, after a while Mr. Mouse pops up. Now, Mr. Mouse is made up of cells, however, they don't act like singular cells. Some work together; others may work apart. The cells, every single one, knows what it's job is, and it is obvious not every cell has the same job. So how could a singel cell "learn" how to perform a certain job? It can't. It must be created knowing it's job. How does evolution allow cells to become "smart"?

 

[croak]

Modern Science Finds God
http://islamic-world.net/SNG/index1.htm
8 pages

 

[croak]

Weird.........seems people ignore my posts.

 

[Yerda]

1.

Weird.........seems people ignore my posts.

3. We know that the matter of the physical universe was brought into being by photons (little packages of light energy) which, when colliding with each other, formed the virtually infinite number of protons, neutrons and electrons, which in various combinations make up everything in our physical world.

This sounds like Mr. Spinkles field. My understanding of this area of science is almost non-existant. Just thought I'd respond because you feel you're being ignored.

4. In essence we can now accurately say that all the matter of the physical universe, ourselves included, is actually light slowed down.

Another interesting statement. Anyone verify this because it sounds like balls?

Light is eternal? Omnipresent? Omniscient? Omnipotent?

It is no longer intellectually possible nor logically reasonable, in light of the finding of modern physics and cosmology, to hold the view of the atheists (that there is no God). The only logically reasonable, and intellectually honest, conclusion that can be drawn from the findings of modern science is that God does exist, that the attributes of God are absolute, and that God did create the physical universe (including human life). We are presently at the beginning of the transition point from a secular materialistic world-view to a spiritual, God-centered world-view.

I'm feeling enlightened already.

I think the aim here is to show that God exists because the author believes light does everything? Is God light, RearingArabian? Is that the idea here?

 

[croak]

now provide firm objective evidence of the existence of God, confirm the primary attributes of God, and show how God created the physical existence out of ‘nothingness’

The primary attirbutes: how do people normally define Allah? As being a light. It is obvious the universe had a start, so that further shows that there is a Creator. Allah is beyond time, space, and matter. In fact, He created them. Since one of His primary attributes is light, that means light would also be beyond such boundaries. And it is.

No, it does not mean everything is created by light. One of our primary attributes, you could say, is beeing made of clay. Clay obviously is matter, so it must also be enclosed by time and space. That means we, with a primary attribute being clay, are restrained by those three things. However, light is not restrained by those three things, so, in effect, neither is Allah.

Hope it made sense. And if Spinkles talks to me about quantum physics, I will definetly not get it. I haven't even finished high school. :bonk:

 

[painted wolf]

Actually RA... Photons are made from electrons not the other way around. Photons are caused by Electons changing state... thus the Sun 'burning' hydorgen makes light. Not Light making the Sun burn hydrogen.

hope this helps

wa:do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hope it made sense. And if Spinkles talks to me about quantum physics, I will definetly not get it. I haven't even finished high school. :bonk:

Just so no one gets the wrong impression...I am no expert in cosmology or quantum physics. Trust me when I say that this stuff is just as if not more baffling to me as it is to you.


I do however believe RearingArabian was right about everything coming from photons, painted wolf. If my memory of this past semester serves me correctly, when the universe was extremely young it was filled with extremely densely packed radiation. Unfortunately I don't have my astronomy book handy to double check this.

 

[t3gah]

I read somewhere that a noted scientist stated the theory of evolution and the make up of both the universe and the world couldn't have happened by chance. This scientist went out to try and disprove the whole creation theory using scientific technology but could not do it.

Science has made unbelievable advances and what not, and then it has also proven many things the Bible said years ago about God. The one scripture that comes to mind is the one that says that God is a God of order and not disorder. Well look at the many laws we have. All the scientific laws man has proven just goes to show that God has really arranged things down to the most minute detail.

 

[Pah]

I read somewhere that a noted scientist stated the theory of evolution and the make up of both the universe and the world couldn't have happened by chance. This scientist went out to try and disprove the whole creation theory using scientific technology but could not do it.

Science has made unbelievable advances and what not, and then it has also proven many things the Bible said years ago about God. The one scripture that comes to mind is the one that says that God is a God of order and not disorder. Well look at the many laws we have. All the scientific laws man has proven just goes to show that God has really arranged things down to the most minute detail.

I read somewhere that a noted scientist stated the theory of evolution and the make up of both the universe and the world couldn't have happened by chance. This scientist went out to try and prove the whole creation theory using scientific technology but could not do it.

Science has made unbelievable advances and what not, and then it has also proven many things the Bible said years ago about God are false.

Shall we vote on the changes?

Bob

 

[linwood]

I read somewhere that a noted scientist stated the theory of evolution and the make up of both the universe and the world couldn't have happened by chance. This scientist went out to try and disprove the whole creation theory using scientific technology but could not do it.

If he`s so "noted" why not cite his name?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

If he`s so "noted" why not cite his name?

Well........ my guess is that he's not really that "noted".

TVOR

 

[croak]

Maybe he had a difficult name? Have you seen Arafat's full name? Try remembering it.

 

[croak]

Actually RA... Photons are made from electrons not the other way around. Photons are caused by Electons changing state... thus the Sun 'burning' hydorgen makes light. Not Light making the Sun burn hydrogen.

I haven't studied this stuff yet. I'm relying on my "intelligence" to figure it out and I'm relying on the scientists being 100% correct.

But maybe that doesn't make a difference. Maybe it does. Who knows?

 

[Zionic86]

Science proves what we call "GOD" exists.

Physical existence has to be contained to remain.
God contained physical existence with infinity.
Infinity is never stopping, so it will keep going, therefore existence has to be setup so that it will never stop, and keep going. Physical existence anyway.

This is why planets are round, and gravity exists.
TO accomplish infinity would be to put reasons in a circle so every reason will have a reason no matter what.

This is why gravity exists, this is why planets are round.

Atoms look like little stars

STars are above us in the sky of space

Atoms are below us clustering together to make us here.

Atoms are the stars in space,

So.

We are at the opposite end of the neverending circle as atoms, because atoms make us up and we make atoms up.

We are made out of the stars in space, and the stars in space make us, however we only see that because we are dumb and think whats below us is all that makes us up.

Atoms look like stars circling around stars,

This is why astrology was invented.

We are the germs of germs, and germs are our germs. God has us contained in the physical realm. The neverending circle of life is where you are now, your the particles of a cell, which is run by a nucleus, that nucleus makes the cell exist, the cell is existence in itself, god is the nucleus, satan is a metephorical virus, and jesus is a metephorical white bloodcell. We are just at the other end of the infinite circle.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Atoms look like little stars

STars are above us in the sky of space

Atoms are below us clustering together to make us here.

Atoms are the stars in space,

I beg your pardon, Zionic, but atoms and stars are two vastly different objects. For one thing, atoms don't have sunspots.

Atoms look like stars circling around stars,

This is why astrology was invented.

With all due respect, what on Earth are you talking about?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

This is why planets are round, and gravity exists.
TO accomplish infinity would be to put reasons in a circle so every reason will have a reason no matter what. This is why gravity exists, this is why planets are round. .

- and -

We are the germs of germs, and germs are our germs. ...neverending circle of life is where you are now, your the particles of a cell, which is run by a nucleus, that nucleus makes the cell exist, the cell is existence in itself, god is the nucleus, satan is a metephorical virus, and jesus is a metephorical white bloodcell. We are just at the other end of the infinite circle.

If you have a coherent thought, please post it. If you are going to ramble, please, just let it go. There is probably someone out there that can put the bandwidth to good use.

TVOR