Does Prayer "Work"?

[Erebus]

It is.
I don't want to stifle further discussion. My example is just a starting point and a position I think I can defend. If you want to expand, go ahead.

There's honestly not a great deal more I can add as far as established studies are concerned. This area of research is still very much in its infancy. There's the general benefit prayer can have on a person's mood of course, though it's hard to quantify how much of a practical effect this has. I suspect that there may well be potential negative effects depending on the nature of the prayer ("Please, God, don't send me to Hell." to give an example of a potentially harmful prayer) though there's even less information available on that.

Actually, that's something that might be worth looking into. Most of these studies are centered on the potential benefits of magical thinking. How about the negatives? How effective could a curse be?

I've personally lifted a curse from somebody by explaining the nocebo effect to them. An ex boyfriend claimed that he had cursed her and sent a creepy note written in Enochian.* She'd started to notice all the little things going wrong in her life and attributed them to the curse. When I mentioned that curses work by influencing a person's perception, the curse no longer held sway over her.

That's obviously just a personal example and I can't claim that this is universally applicable. I feel it would make for an interesting avenue of study though.


*Supposedly the language of angels. I don't believe it is for a minute.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

From how I experienced it, prayer and meditation pretty much go hand in hand. You can pray within yourself, to yourself, to an outside party, or externalize your internal state to an external symbol. When you take the traditions and religion from it, then yes, since we are all human and meditation and prayer calms the mind etc, it does have an affect on the immune system, helps relieve stress, and spiritually minded-helps you be aware and grateful for things you wouldn't have before or have different matured state of mind as one progresses. Neurotheology touches on this. Of course basic psychology, physiology, and plane theology. It's an interesting observation and when I see the same behaviors and/or contextual-language across more than one faith, it pretty much seems like a human thing. Some are more acceptable to it than others, I figure.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What is "it?" I don't see a pronoun antecedent. How do you know "it" would have had the same effect for them? Maybe it would for you, but you are not them, so you have no way of knowing if "it" would have the same effect.

The psychological process that is triggered in them by praying, which is triggered in me by playing drums, which is triggered in another by jogging, etc.

Let's cut this short.
x amount of mutually exclusive religions. At best, only one is correct.
yet the followers of all these religions, achieve this effect through praying to their specific gods.
By definition, most of those gods will not exist.

Conclusion: the effect of the praying is not connected to the accuracy of the religion of said prayer. So when the theist concludes that the effect of praying confirms their religious beliefs to be accurate, they are wrong about that.

Furthermore, the effect also manifests in activities that have nothing to do with prayer.

Therefor, the effect being triggered is necessarily triggered by something other then the act of praying.

Not seeing what the problem is here...

As said multiple times, my point here is not to dismiss the fact that praying can lead to such effects. My point is that the fact that praying can lead to such effects, has no bearing on the accuracy of the religion in context of which the praying takes place. The religion can be completely incorrect and it wouldn't change the outcome.

How do you know this?

I just explained it.

What do you know of their god? What if their god is a drum, and they pray to their drum by hitting it for a therapeutic change and they think the drum helps them achieve the state of mind to help affect the therapeutic change?

Why is important for you to show someone that their god had nothing to do with it?

I like being accurate.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because He can't stand it when someone believe different then him........ Oh crap did I say that out aloud sorryyyy

No.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No.

You do realize I was joking?

 

[Kenny]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

Of course, I am purely looking at this in a Christian perspective...

I believe, because of scriptures, that we are a tri-une being - spirit, soul and body.

The soul is very powerful and so meditation and similar practices has an effect on the human body. For an example, worry can cause ulcers - but peace can prevent it. So, if mediation helps you enter into peace, your body benefits. In essence, as you said, you have an influence on yourself.

But we also believe that there is a spiritual aspect that can impact a soul and a body where you can pray for others. Whether in the TaNaKh or the NT and today - the capacity of people to impact other people is possible. Can the soul override a prayer? Yes - there is free will.

Certainly there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way - I think that is logical.

 

[metis]

IMO, prayer is mainly for us, not God. It gives us the time and opportunity to use contemplative prayer, which is a form of both meditation and contemplation.

 

[Kenny]

IMO, prayer is mainly for us, not God. It gives us the time and opportunity to use contemplative prayer, which is a form of both meditation and contemplation.

I agree completely.

In another thread I mentioned there are different types of prayer.

Prayer of thanksgiving, prayer of worship, a meditation on Joshua 1:8 day and night... all are prayer forms and specifically in line with what you said!

BUT!

That isn't to forget that Elijah prayed and it stopped raining and prayed again and it rained. something to contemplate on and meditate on for one's personal edification

 

[Magic Man]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

Generally when people say "prayer works", they mean that when someone prays for something, God answers their prayer. It usually doesn't refer to just getting a positive feeling from the act. If that's the way you want to use it, then yes, of course it "works" in that way, just like meditation does. But to me that's not a helpful way to think about "prayer working".

 

[Nakosis]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

Well, I suspect that if you consciously ask for an answer to a problem, one's subconscious mind will often come up with an answer. The answer "mysteriously" pops up in your head.

 

[metis]

I agree completely.

In another thread I mentioned there are different types of prayer.

Prayer of thanksgiving, prayer of worship, a meditation on Joshua 1:8 day and night... all are prayer forms and specifically in line with what you said!

Thanks, and I certainly agree that there's various forms of prayer.

BUT!

That isn't to forget that Elijah prayed and it stopped raining and prayed again and it rained. something to contemplate on and meditate on for one's personal edification

Ya, but...

First of all, I don't expect God to change events just because of maybe something I want.

Secondly, I do pray for others, but I have no idea whether they're effective or not. But what I do know is that in some cases I may be able to make someone else's prayer come true.

Gandhi said he never heard God's voice but did conclude that God may speak to us through strong feelings of what to do or not. However, he added that we much first double-check and make certain that what we are supposedly to do is moral to begin with. Taking this approach for over three decades now has made a HUGE difference in my life that has opened doors and led me to opportunities I never could have anticipated.

BTW, I don't give the credit to me-- I give it to the BOSS-- and I don't mean my wife -- she's my lower-case boss. But don't tell her I said this, OK?

 

[Kenny]

Ya, but...

First of all, I don't expect God to change events just because of maybe something I want.

True... true. God is not necessarily moved by our wants. But when we know what God wants...

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Secondly, I do pray for others, but I have no idea whether they're effective or not. But what I do know is that in some cases I may be able to make someone else's prayer come true.

That is so refreshing!!! It is beautiful when we see someone else's prayer manifest!

Gandhi said he never heard God's voice but did conclude that God may speak to us through strong feelings of what to do or not. However, he added that we much first double-check and make certain that what we are supposedly to do is moral to begin with. Taking this approach for over three decades now has made a HUGE difference in my life that has opened doors and led me to opportunities I never could have anticipated.

THIS is huge! I would agree 100%

BTW, I don't give the credit to me-- I give it to the BOSS-- and I don't mean my wife -- she's my lower-case boss. But don't tell her I said this, OK?

This is right above Ghandi's wisdom! On both accounts - (At least that is what my wife says)

 

[PureX]

It depends on what one is expecting their prayer to achieve.

If they pray for calm, or for clarity, or for courage, or for compassion, the act of praying will probably help them achieve that result.

If they pray for the winning lotto ticket, or any other similar 'miracle of fate', they will most likely be disappointed.

 

[Heyo]

Well, I suspect that if you consciously ask for an answer to a problem, one's subconscious mind will often come up with an answer. The answer "mysteriously" pops up in your head.

There is no "sub"conscience. (Sorry, pet peeve, been together with a psychologist for some time.)
Yes, when you compare the mind to a computer (which is inappropriate often but it works here) problems can run "in the background", away from the foreground consciousness. And like in a computer the background tasks take up processing time and other resources. That's why your thinking isn't that clear and fast if you have unsolved problems.

 

[Twilight Hue]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

Its really an odds game. Prayer is no different than rolling the dice and hoping for the right outcome.

I do think however prayer can have intangible benefits that provides a mental oasis for a person and maybe even provide a calming effect to help out in handling situations and see it through, thus fulfilling those odds in their favor.

 

[Nakosis]

There is no "sub"conscience. (Sorry, pet peeve, been together with a psychologist for some time.)
Yes, when you compare the mind to a computer (which is inappropriate often but it works here) problems can run "in the background", away from the foreground consciousness. And like in a computer the background tasks take up processing time and other resources. That's why your thinking isn't that clear and fast if you have unsolved problems.

There is no "sub"conscience? Not sure I agree but also not sure it is relevant to what I said either.

There is a lot of "stuff" going on in our head that we are not consciously aware of. Memories that get buried in our mind that we are not consciously aware of. A lot of "problems" that run in the background which we are not conscious of. What would you call this function of the brain?

Subconscious to me just means the stuff going on in the brain which does not reach conscious awareness.

 

[Heyo]

Subconscious to me just means the stuff going on in the brain which does not reach conscious awareness.

The terminus technicus in psychology is unconscious. Subconscious is just the colloquial word. And no, it doesn't matter. Everyone understands what you mean. And we get the additional information that you're a lay person to psychology.

 

[Nakosis]

The terminus technicus in psychology is unconscious. Subconscious is just the colloquial word. And no, it doesn't matter. Everyone understands what you mean. And we get the additional information that you're a lay person to psychology.

I used to use unconscious but decided I didn't like the term as I understand it there are many layers of consciousness or awareness. Even when we are asleep our mind has some degree of awareness. Only when we are completely out as in under anesthesia is the mind completely unaware, unconscious, lacking awareness. So pet peeve of mine too, IMO the term unconscious is being used wrong. Of course, I don't get to argue with many Psychologists.

 

[Rise]

(In an attempt to draw an off-topic discussion away from my OP ...)

This may surprise some but I, an Agnostic, think that prayers do "work". I don't have direct evidence but there are hints in related fields that influenced my evaluation.
There are some restrictions though:
1. Prayers don't have an influence on the world outside yourself. You can't pray for others, only for yourself.
2. It has to be "done right".

There are multiple studies that show that meditation and similar practises have an effect on the human body, especially the immune system.
Prayer, if "done right", induces a similar mental state as meditation.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Thoughts, refutations, links to studies?

You're not talking about prayer by definition.

Prayer and meditation are not the same thing.


Dictionary definition of prayer:

• A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
• n.
  The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.

Dictionary definition of mediate:

• To train, calm, or empty the mind, often by achieving an altered state, as by focusing on a single object, especially as a form of religious practice in Buddhism or Hinduism.
• To engage in focused thought on scriptural passages or on particular doctrines or mysteries of a religion, especially Christianity.

I can say from experience that prayer to God of the Bible does work.

But we can't begin to talk about the how and why behind that without first getting terms strait.

 

[Heyo]

You're not talking about prayer by definition.

Prayer and meditation are not the same thing.


Dictionary definition of prayer:

• A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
• n.
  The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.

Dictionary definition of mediate:

• To train, calm, or empty the mind, often by achieving an altered state, as by focusing on a single object, especially as a form of religious practice in Buddhism or Hinduism.
• To engage in focused thought on scriptural passages or on particular doctrines or mysteries of a religion, especially Christianity.

I can say from experience that prayer to God of the Bible does work.

But we can't begin to talk about the how and why behind that without first getting terms strait.

As you may have realized from the discussion between @TagliatelliMonster and myself, my argument is that prayer works because it is (can be) equivalent to meditation. When you take away the equivalence, you take away the explanation for the effect. I'd even go so far as stating that prayer that isn't equivalent to meditation is totally ineffective.
We see that in studies about intercessory prayer, no effect there.

So, if you insist on a difference what is your explanation and what is your evidence?