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Featured Does Original Islam teach Mahdi and return of Christ?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Have you read the mission of the Promised One in the Jewish Holy Book? These verses are about a Promised One, revealed by Jewish Prophets:

    "1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;

    from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

    2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him

    the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,

    the Spirit of counsel and of might,

    the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord—

    3and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.

    He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,

    or decide by what he hears with his ears;

    4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,

    with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.

    He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;

    with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.

    5Righteousness will be his belt

    and faithfulness the sash around his waist.

    6The wolf will live with the lamb,

    the leopard will lie down with the goat,

    the calf and the lion and the yearlingatogether
    ;

    and a little child will lead them.

    7The cow will feed with the bear,

    their young will lie down together,

    and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

    8The infant will play near the cobra’s den,

    and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

    9They will neither harm nor destroy

    on all my holy mountain,

    for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord

    as the waters cover the sea."


    Isaiah 11 NIV


    Now, according to those verses, on a Promised One, the Spirit of God ascends, Spirit of Knowledge, then the earth will become peaceful, and the earth will be filled with the knowledge of its Lord.


    Quran confirms these verses by making allusions to them, in a more brief form. for example:

    "And the earth Shall shine with the Light of its Lord"

    According to the Jewish Prophets, this promise happens when a Messiah comes, and Quran also refers to this Promise again to happen in a future time. This Promise of peace, and making the earth shine with light of knowledge is described by prophets to happen, through appearance of a Promised Messiah. It did not happen when Jesus came. It must therefore happen in the future, as Quran also confirms that the earth becomes like paradise and the believers inherit the earth eventually.
    Shia Imams interpreted such verses of Quran as coming of a Promised Mahdi who is Christ returned. There is no new interpretation. Prophets of past, as well as Quran, and Hadithes of Prophet Muhammad and Shia Imams are all in agreement with each other! This is what Religion of God teaches, like it or not my friend :)
     
    #81 InvestigateTruth, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  2. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I don't believe in what others believe about Messaih(pbuh).


    This verse is talking about end of earth,life,just before Jugdement Day.


    Everyone is free ,I don't care about others beliefs.

    I was a believer and a supporter of the idea Jesus(pbuh) return,so I update my beliefs, after I discover it's about copy/paste hadithes from Bible,and Quran never mentionned about Jesus(pbuh) return.neither Mahdi.

    "Well knowlegde" title is not permission of extend the interpretation meaning far from orginal meaning,or invent something new.

    Let's end this discuss by this conclusion by an exemple of software :) ,my religion don't wait an update in future,get it ?
     
  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Ok, lets look at the context of the verses surrounding 17:71.

    17:68-72 .

    "Can you, then, ever feel sure that He will not cause a tract of dry land to swallow you up, or let loose upon you a deadly storm-wind, whereupon you would find none to be your protector?

    Or can you, perchance, feel sure that He will not make you put back to sea once again, and then let loose upon you a raging tempest and cause you to drown in requital of your ingratitude - whereupon you would find none to uphold you against Us?

    NOW, INDEED, We have conferred dignity on the children of Adam, and borne them over land and sea, and provided for them sustenance out of the good things of life, and favoured them far above most of Our creation:

    On the Day We shall call every people with their Imam ; then whoever is given his book in his right hand; then these will read their book ; and they will not be treated unjustly in the least.

    Whoso is blind here will be blind in the Hereafter, and yet further from the road."


    These verses are giving examples of the people of the past, when guidance came to them, but they did not follow, thus God punished them. Then immediately after these verses is talking about another guidance who comes to the people of a future time. When that Imam Qaim comes to them with Book of God, their Book will be given to them to read. But, just as when Prophet Muhammad gave Book of God to those people and they were blind, and did not able to understand or see the divinity of the Book, likewise the people of the Later Time, will also be blind and will not be able to recognize the new Book of God which will be with that Imam.

    The evidence of the rejection of the New Book is in the following verses and traditions:

    These Prophecies are regarding the abrogation of Quranic Laws, and Revelation of a New Book, and New way of Life:

    "The Day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good through his Faith." (6:158). It is recorded in Bihar, that Imam Ali and Imam Sadiq said this verse denotes the advent of the awaited Qaim from us.



    In another words, according to that verse, after Rise of Qaim, if someone did not believe in Quran before, but begins to believe in Quran after rise of Qaim, His belief will not do any good anymore, because, at that time, believing in Qaim, and His New Book will Profit him.

    The Quranic evidence of abrogation of Quranic Laws is in surrah Al-Hajj:

    “Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


    Therefore the Quranic Rites are benefitial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

    “He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5


    And the evidence of abrogation of Quran and coming of a new Book are in these Traditions recorded in Bihar and Al-Kafi:

    Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: “When the Qaim rises, he will come with a new commandment from Allah, just as the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) summoned men to a new set of commandments at the beginning of Islam.”



    And the Quranic evidence that Qaim comes with a Book of God is in Surrah Al-Isra, verse 71:

    “On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam; and he whose Book is given in his right hand shall read it, nor shall they be wronged a straw.” 17:71


    And in Al-kafi, ‘Abdallah ibn Sinan narrated, "I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of , ‘On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam . . ." (17:71) The Imam (a.s.) said, "It refers to the Imam who is with them and he is Qa’im of the people of that time."


    In Al-kafi it is narrated that Imam MuhammadBaqir (a.s.) said: “... they will disagree in the Book that will be with the Qaim, who will bring it to them, so much so that a large number of people will deny him.”


    And in Bihar in another Hadith, Imam said, “Qaim rises with a new Cause, a new Book, new Judgement which is sever on Arabs.”

    The Quranic evidence of the Book being severe on Arabs is in Surrah AlQamar:

    "The Day the caller calls to an undesirable event" 56:6
    It is recorded this verse is regarding, Imam Mahdi, who calls people to that which they dislike and deny.
     
    #83 InvestigateTruth, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  4. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Ok my friend we can end this discussion by saying, the Original Islamic view must be known from authentic Islamic sources and not just by what anyone who claims to be a scholar or Muslim, as there are so many scholars and Muslims with conflicting views. The decision regarding updating Religion is with Allah. People before Revelation of Quran, such as Christians, or Jews and others, also do not and did not believe their Religion requires any update. :)
     
  5. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    If Jesus(pbuh) will comeback,or Mahdi comes,1 that consider an update in my view.

    I do think many of followers of Abrahamic religions,waiting for that events downloading,get it ?
     
  6. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    It is not my concern if people are waiting for Mahdi and Christ or not. I only wanted to have a discussion to provide information in order to decide if these Promised Ones are originated from Muhammad and Quran. I think it was a good discussion, and we put enough information in this thread to know. The judgement is with the individual. Thanks for participation in the discussion.
     
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  7. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    You are welcome,I know my Muslim "opinion" is not from majority,but I think it's courage to update an principle opinion.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Does original Islam teach the Idea of Qaim (Mahdi) and return of Christ or these ideas were added later." Unquote.

    The concept of Imam Qaim (Mahdi) which the Bahaism and Shiaism people present is not mentioned in Quran .
    If yes, then please quote Quran verse with the verses in the context, some preceding and some following, and then justify it from them.

    Regards
     
    #88 paarsurrey, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "there is no verse in Quran said Jesus(pbuh) will return, all verses said is dead.". Unquote.

    Yes, there is no verse in Quran that says that Jesus will return literally and physically. There are about 30 verses that establish that Jesus died naturally, not on the Cross from which he was delivered in near-dead position but very much alive.
    So, there is no possibility of Jesus coming again or returning literally and physically.

    Regards
     
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  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "this verse is talking about Day of Judgment" Unquote.

    Yes, the verse [5:119] is talking about Day of Judgment after everybody will die.

    Regards
     
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  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    This thread is not about the Bahai Faith view. It is about if the Qaim, or the Mahdi originated from Muhammad and Quran.
    Your expression that shiaism Qaim is not mentioned sounds a little fanatic, unless you have good reason to prove it. Please read my posts in this thread. I have quoted many Quranic verses, with reliable Hadithes.

    How do you know which Hadithes are true and which ones are false?
     
    #91 InvestigateTruth, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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