Does Judaism have Doctrine of Original Sin and if not why does Christianity?

[Avi1001]

It's not being inflicted specifically. It's a condition of the universe. God is certainly responsible for making the universe the way that it is, but that doesn't mean that everything that happens to someone is being specifically directed at them by God for reasons of reward or punishment. The notion that everything happens to people because God directly causes it with specific intent to correlate to behavior is incredibly archaic. It's medieval.

Perhaps even more importantly, it is illogical !

 

[roger1440]

It’s probably easier to define Judaism then it is Christianity.

 

[roger1440]

It's not being inflicted specifically. It's a condition of the universe. God is certainly responsible for making the universe the way that it is, but that doesn't mean that everything that happens to someone is being specifically directed at them by God for reasons of reward or punishment. The notion that everything happens to people because God directly causes it with specific intent to correlate to behavior is incredibly archaic. It's medieval.







No. What the Rabbis teach is the fuller context.

The Jesus of the gospel of Luke said pretty much the same thing, but in less words, LOL.

4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” (Luke 13:4-5)
​

 

[Tumah]

Original sin in Christianity is a doctrine that claims that due to Adam the entire world is under sin. That everyone is born with sin because of Adam and fall short of God.

There is something close but not the exactly the same. Judaism has a doctrine that at first because of Adam and then because of the Golden Calf, the evil inclination became an internal entity rather than the external one it was. More like, the world is in a state of imperfection.

 

[Sunstone]

In my opinion, it's completely absurd to deny the fact the Jews found original ways to sin. I mean, eating shellfish? Wearing clothing of two fabrics? etc., etc. Come on! Let's give credit for originality while sinning to where credit is due!

 

[Sleeppy]

The illnesses you had mentioned can happen to any organism. They are not limited to humans. Are other creatures subject to “original sin” also?

Animals are just as capable of sin, as any other servant. Yes.

"Sins" have been determined by both the evolution of the planet, and the evolution of the living organisms in it.


Dogs were domesticated in the same way as humans- with reward and punishment, or cause and effect. Today, we punish our dogs for inappropriate bathroom usage, and eventually they repent. If the same dogs were in the wild, their sin would not exist, and they would have no need to repent of it.


Certain traits leading to reward are bred into special breeds. Dogs are often selected according to the nature of their breed. The natures of these breeds depend on actions preceding them.

 

[Pegg]

It's one of those interesting distinguishing things about Christianity and Judaism. As far as I know there is no concept or doctrine of original sin in Judaism yet there is one in Christianity.

Given the close ties that Christianity has with Judaism at least in terms of its origins, why is such a crucial doctrine missing in Judaism? Where did it come from, how did it develop and were there those of the Jewish community who believed in such a doctrine or still do?

the hebrew scriptures speak plenty of original sin

the opening book of the bible begins with mankinds fall into sin when Adam and Eve ate the from the tree forbidden to eat of.

And the later writers speak at length about the sins of the people and being 'born' sinners:
Psalms 51:*5*Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains, And in sin my mother conceived me


Job 14:*4*Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean? There is not one.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth
All of Adams offspring are 'unclean' and born in sin... this is why the Hebrew scriptures were looking for a Messiah to save them from this condition.

Christian teachings are based on the hebrew scriptures which highlight the concept of original sin in the above verses.

Paul stated:
Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned


And if Judiasm doesnt teach such things today, its likely because they focus more on the teachings of the Mishnah then the Hebrew scriptures.

 

[Tumah]

the hebrew scriptures speak plenty of original sin

the opening book of the bible begins with mankinds fall into sin when Adam and Eve ate the from the tree forbidden to eat of.

And the later writers speak at length about the sins of the people and being 'born' sinners:
Psalms 51:*5*Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains, And in sin my mother conceived me

First of all, there is no word in the Hebrew that parallels your "with birth pains".
Second, this verse is not saying that David was born a sinner. But that he was born through sinning.

Job 14:*4*Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean? There is not one.

You can't play around with the translation and then expect everyone to agree with you. It doesn't say "someone" by either clean or unclean. All this verse is doing is reiterating Eccl. 7:20: Everyone sins. That only means that everyone is born with an evil inclination, not that everyone is born in sin. That is Proverbs 24:16. Everyone makes mistakes. The righteous one is the one who fixes them.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth
All of Adams offspring are 'unclean' and born in sin... this is why the Hebrew scriptures were looking for a Messiah to save them from this condition.

This is pure interpolation. The verse says nothing about being clean or unclean here. Adam was a man and he gave birth to other men. Not fish. Anything more than that is interpolation.

And if Judiasm doesnt teach such things today, its likely because they focus more on the teachings of the Mishnah then the Hebrew scriptures.

This is false.
-There is nothing that Judaism taught yesteryear that isn't taught today.
-The Mishnah is only a small part of the Talmud.
-The Talmud is replete with verses from Scriptures on every page.
-There is plenty of Jewish commentary on Scriptures. The smallest number of commentators I've seen in a "Rabbinical Bible" is six. Mine happens to have 14.
-Unless you can tell me that the average Christian is equally familiar with the "OT" as with the NT, this is not even a comment that you should be making.

 

[metis]

Perhaps even more importantly, it is illogical !

Yes, and this gets back to the issue of using "reason" when attempting to interpret.

 

[metis]

In my opinion, it's completely absurd to deny the fact the Jews found original ways to sin. I mean, eating shellfish? Wearing clothing of two fabrics? etc., etc. Come on! Let's give credit for originality while sinning to where credit is due!

But that doesn't really relate to the issue of "original sin", which has it that even a newborn baby has sin supposedly because of Adam & Eve's sins.

 

[Tumah]

Yes, I am aware it is found in early Rabbinic theology also. But my point remains the same, in that our theology has evolved and become more complex and nuanced since then-- as have the theologies of many Christian and Muslim sects, who also shared that theology at one time or another.

I don't see this. I have yet to read a book by an accredited Orthodox Rabbi who disagrees with those statements from the Talmud. Maybe in your denomination its different?

 

[Tumah]

Does the use of the term righteousness mean different things in Christianity and Judaism?

I don't know what it means in Christianity.
But Proverbs 24:16 explains the difference between the righteous and the wicked: the righteous person is the one that gets back up after stumbling, the wicked remains fallen.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

But that doesn't really relate to the issue of "original sin", which has it that even a newborn baby has sin supposedly because of Adam & Eve's sins.

I think it's part of the reason the idea of purgatory became prevalent in catholicism, because there really wasn't an answer for were such "souls" would go.

 

[metis]

I think it's part of the reason the idea of purgatory became prevalent in catholicism, because there really wasn't an answer for were such "souls" would go.

Actually that is from an interpretation, I believe from one of Paul's epistles, whereas he says that some sins may not be forgiven on earth or in heaven, and yet he is referring to some that will indeed eventually make it into heaven.

Maybe someone here, including yourself, can help me here with where that's found. If not, I'll try and look it up later.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Actually that is from an interpretation, I believe from one of Paul's epistles, whereas he says that some sins may not be forgiven on earth or in heaven, and yet he is referring to some that will indeed eventually make it into heaven.

Maybe someone here, including yourself, can help me here with where that's found. If not, I'll try and look it up later.

Really? I didn't know that, but I know that because of something Paul wrote in Thessalonians that we got the idea of the Rapture.

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by Levite
Yes, I am aware it is found in early Rabbinic theology also. But my point remains the same, in that our theology has evolved and become more complex and nuanced since then-- as have the theologies of many Christian and Muslim sects, who also shared that theology at one time or another.

I don't see this. I have yet to read a book by an accredited Orthodox Rabbi who disagrees with those statements from the Talmud. Maybe in your denomination its different?

I agree. Our theology has remained the same since the beginning of judaism.

 

[CMike]

In my opinion, it's completely absurd to deny the fact the Jews found original ways to sin. I mean, eating shellfish? Wearing clothing of two fabrics? etc., etc. Come on! Let's give credit for originality while sinning to where credit is due!

The jews didn't find "ways to sin".

G-D gave these laws to the jews.

 

[CMike]

"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them." (Ezekiel 18:20)

:yes:

 

[Sunstone]

The jews didn't find "ways to sin".

G-D gave these laws to the jews.

Go back and read it as slow as you need to to figure out it's a joke. I mean, who in hell thinks "original sin" means "finding original ways to sin". Next time I have to explain a simple joke to you guys, I'm just going to shoot myself instead.

 

[CMike]

Go back and read it as slow as you need to to figure out it's a joke. I mean, who in hell thinks "original sin" means "finding original ways to sin". Next time I have to explain a simple joke to you guys, I'm just going to shoot myself instead.

It was extremely funny