Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

[Shermana]

That you would presume to teach anyone history is laughable as evidenced by your reference to the Palestinian mandate ...

Before it was a British mandate, it was just the province of "Palestine" in the Ottoman Empire, of which the grand majority of the "Southern Syrian Arabs" living there were in the "Transjordan" region. The point is that apparently Jordan became a distinct identity from "Palestine" after 1946 for some reason. I think your contention here is that I used the word Mandate to refer to the time under Ottoman control, which I used just for convenience.

Note the above reference to "the end of the 19th century." Why focus on that period?

Because the argument was made that 430k Muslims were in the region that became known as the "Mandate" with only 40k Jews, try to keep up if you can. It is tiring have to explain you to what's being discussed. Let me repeat a key part of the issue: Most of the Arabs in the region where the Jews settled were emigrants, just like the Zionists they accuse of being Emigrants.

Just FYI: the British Mandate for Palestine came three to four decades later ... on September of 1923.

And before that it was a part of the Ottoman Empire, what's your point? The same region of "Palestine" was simply renamed to "Mandate of Palestine". How does that relate to the issue that Jordan was just an Emirate of the Palestinian region for centuries and that Palestinians and Jordanians are not that dissimilar whatsoever? I think you're harping on my use of terms here rather than wanting to discuss the meat of the issue. Expected.

Do you want to actually discuss the Demographic and geographic issue at stake here?

I still like your response to what to do about the Demographic timebomb, "Israel will keep up counter terrorism operations"....yeah Okay Jay.

I think its fair to say that people like YOU would bring Israel to Demographic destruction within a decade, say all you want about my "Xenophobic Bigotry".

 

[paarsurrey]

Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

No.

Israel hos no exclusive temporal , ethical, moral or spiritual right on Arabian Peninsula. If there is one; please prove it.

Regards

 

[Flankerl]

Congratulations, you resurrected a Thread where Shermana was the last member who posted.

Thats a bad omen.

 

[CMike]

Again, so what? Who gets to decide what a people identify themselves as?

Denying the existence of an entire group of people, on either side, is disrespectful and arrogant, IMO.

It's not a group of people.

The arabs living in Judea and Samaria are mainly Jordanian.

The arabs living in Gaza are mainly Egpytian.

There has never been an independent muslim country of "palestine".

 

[Phil25]

Do the Turks have the right to Anatolia?
No

Do the Albanian Kosovans have the right to Kosovo?
No

Do the Turks have the right to Northern Cyprus?
No

If Palestinians have the right for Israel, then the
Greeks and Armenians have the right for Modern day Turkey
Serbians have the right for Kosovo
Greek Cyproits have the for Northern Cyprus

and ultimately Hagia Sophia should be given back to Orthodox Christians, which the Muslim "infidels" conquered it when they illegally migrated from Central Asia
and dont forget this former churches too Christianity in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunstone]

There has never been an independent muslim country of "palestine".

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be. There was never an independent country of the United States before the British colonists decided to become an independent country. Are you for giving us back to the Brits, then?

 

[columbus]

Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

No.

Israel hos no exclusive temporal , ethical, moral or spiritual right on Arabian Peninsula. If there is one; please prove it.

Regards

Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, has given the Zionists military victory after victory without fail over their foes. He has bestowed upon them the most vibrant and just society the holy land has ever known.
There's your Islamic proof.

Tom

 

[CMike]

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be. There was never an independent country of the United States before the British colonists decided to become an independent country. Are you for giving us back to the Brits, then?

There is one. It's called Jordan.

In the British palestine, 4/5ths of it is now Jordan. The Palestinian state is called Jordan.

Also, there are 22 arab states. There are numerous christian states.

There is the only jewish state, and it's a very small one.

This isn't about the WB or Gaza. This is about the very existence of Israel.

The arab leadership doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think I will ever understand the Jewish perspective about the matter.

In any case, I don't really see any sense in the very idea that anyone has inherent rights to any land, as stated here.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ea-land-property-sustainable-will-become.html

 

[Flankerl]

People are actually answering to postings which were made 2 years ago.

The word wrong doesnt even describe it.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be. There was never an independent country of the United States before the British colonists decided to become an independent country. Are you for giving us back to the Brits, then?

Yes, is that even a question?

You have to agree that your flag would already look cooler if your used the East India Companies flag.
This already looks better.

I mean seriously your flag hasnt looked good whenever you did away with the round star designs. Just way too many stars. The Betsy Ross looks nice.


Come home rebel without a cause.

[youtube]W_QuFx_emng[/youtube]
Rule, Britannia!

 

[paarsurrey]

Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, has given the Zionists military victory after victory without fail over their foes. He has bestowed upon them the most vibrant and just society the holy land has ever known.
There's your Islamic proof.

Tom

For

Islamic proof

, please quote from Quran.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Do the Turks have the right to Anatolia?
No

Do the Albanian Kosovans have the right to Kosovo?
No

Do the Turks have the right to Northern Cyprus?
No

If Palestinians have the right for Israel, then the
Greeks and Armenians have the right for Modern day Turkey
Serbians have the right for Kosovo
Greek Cyproits have the for Northern Cyprus

and ultimately Hagia Sophia should be given back to Orthodox Christians, which the Muslim "infidels" conquered it when they illegally migrated from Central Asia
and dont forget this former churches too Christianity in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do the Turks have the right to Anatolia?
No

Do the Albanian Kosovans have the right to Kosovo?
No

Do the Turks have the right to Northern Cyprus?

If they don't have the right; why should Jews have any right on Israel? Please

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't think I will ever understand the Jewish perspective about the matter.

In any case, I don't really see any sense in the very idea that anyone has inherent rights to any land, as stated here.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ea-land-property-sustainable-will-become.html

I agree with you.

Regards

 

[YmirGF]

I agree with you.

Regards

If Luis is right, then no land claims are valid. I'm sure the "Palestinians" would love that.

 

[columbus]

For , please quote from Quran.

Regards

Allah, in His infinite wisdom, has consistently given the Zionists victory. If there is an Allah, that is.

I'm sure you can find the verses about Allah's righteous judgement without my help.

Tom

 

[icehorse]

Here's a strawman proposal:

Principle 1 - A country's borders shouldn't be overly gerrymandered.
Principle 2 - Everyone in the region has a lot of blood on their hands historically.

So, I'd do the following:

1 - Give the WB to Israel.
2 - Create a Palestinian state carved from parts of Egypt, the southern part of Israel, and the southern part of Jordan - and maybe even a bit of SA !!

Israel loses territory in the south, and importantly it loses Aqaba, a port town. But it gains the WB and it creates a more defensible, less gerrymandered border.

All the countries in the region share the burden of creating a Palestinian homeland.

 

[CMike]

That thinking is reasonable.

 

[FearGod]

Here's a strawman proposal:

Principle 1 - A country's borders shouldn't be overly gerrymandered.
Principle 2 - Everyone in the region has a lot of blood on their hands historically.

So, I'd do the following:

1 - Give the WB to Israel.
2 - Create a Palestinian state carved from parts of Egypt, the southern part of Israel, and the southern part of Jordan - and maybe even a bit of SA !!

Israel loses territory in the south, and importantly it loses Aqaba, a port town. But it gains the WB and it creates a more defensible, less gerrymandered border.

All the countries in the region share the burden of creating a Palestinian homeland.

What about giving one of the American states to the Palestinians ?

 

[Apple Sugar]

I'd agree the question becomes, who owned the land that is in a dessert, before the Hebrews took it?
And then generations after they were in captivity they are made free, wander for a generation, find a place that is inhabited by people in the dessert, lay claim, and make war.

I think there's enough room for "terrorist state" to go around on all sides.

Golda Meier in her term as Israeli Prime Minister, went on the record and said there would be peace in the middle east when the Palestinians loved their children more than they loved killing Israels.

Western journalism is, shall we say, censored, in favor of Israel, America's ally. Other outlets not so much. One will never get the impression the Israeli's are those "poor Jews" beset by those "evil Muslims", if they investigate on that front. Or, if they visit Israel.
Not to forget that the Palestinian territory is situated over an aquifer in the dessert. Israeli law forbids Palestinians to sink wells so as to provide water to their homes there. Instead the Palestinians have to pay to be watered by Israel's supply that draws from the aquifer. In the dessert.

I'll admit I don't know everything about the situation with modern Israel, but the idea I hear sometimes that it is on Biblical justification because Jews had it thousands of years ago is a strawman to me. I've read from anything that the Jews and Israel has a right to the land to that they stole it and that Israel is a terrorist state.

For about four years I maintained that Israel really didn't have a right to the land after learning more about it, and before then, I didn't really have an opinion. Though most recently I think I have realized that maybe I prematurely formed my views on it, though I have my suspicions of how both sides paint each other. If anyone has an opinion on either the formation of modern Israel or Israel's situations in the Middle East politics and world events, I would like to hear it.

 

[columbus]

Here's a strawman proposal:

Principle 1 - A country's borders shouldn't be overly gerrymandered.
Principle 2 - Everyone in the region has a lot of blood on their hands historically.

So, I'd do the following:

1 - Give the WB to Israel.
2 - Create a Palestinian state carved from parts of Egypt, the southern part of Israel, and the southern part of Jordan - and maybe even a bit of SA !!

Israel loses territory in the south, and importantly it loses Aqaba, a port town. But it gains the WB and it creates a more defensible, less gerrymandered border.

All the countries in the region share the burden of creating a Palestinian homeland.

OMG. CMike and I agree about something!!!
Some variation on this compromise (that doesn't satisfy everyone's claims to real estate) is the only hope for lasting peace.
But it is no more likely than the USA cutting off petroleum imports in the interests of peace. The people with power are too invested in continuing the conflict.

Tom