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Does Islam promote peace?

gnostic

The Lost One
bruce dlimber said:
You overlook the fact that Baha'is seek no such power!

And that partisan poiltics is roundly condemned and always to be avoided.

So any such "prediction" about its future is pure hot air unsupported by facts, the more so given that the Baha'i scriptures include statements like these:

“O people of the earth!
“The first Glad-Tidings which the Mother Book hath, in this Most Great Revelation, imparted to all the peoples of the world is that the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Lord of grace abounding, through Whom the door of heavenly bounty hath been flung open in the face of all that are in Heaven and on earth.
“The second Glad-Tidings . . .”
--Tablets of Baha’u’llah, pp. 21-22

“Beware lest ye shed the blood of anyone. Unsheathe the sword of your tongue from the scabbard of utterance, for therewith ye can conquer the citadels of men’s hearts. We have abolished the law to wage holy war against each other. God’s mercy, hath, verily, encompassed all created things, if ye do but understand. Aid ye your Lord, the God of Mercy, with the sword of understanding. Keener indeed is it, and more finely tempered, than the sword of utterance, were ye but to reflect upon the words of your Lord. Thus have the hosts of Divine Revelation been sent down by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting, and thus have the armies of divine inspiration been made manifest from the Source of command, as bidden by God, the All-Glorious, the Best-Beloved.”
--The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p 23

That said, if you'd like to learn more about the Faith, please visit:

http://www.bahai.org

And I'll be most happy to answer any questions you may have about it!

Peace, :)

Bruce

That's good to know.

The problems I have with Christianity and Islam, that they (some people) can't separate religion from politics. That's why I preferred live in a secular society, where politics, laws, and education are separate from religion, but people may individually and freely follow whatever religions they believe in.

Mixing religion with politics or with wars, is a recipe for disasters, because it breeds unnecessary tensions and inequality (or bigotry).

Even in Australia, that have secular constitution and democracy, we have groups of Christians and Muslims, who want more rights than everyone else. They are not satisfied with equal right; they want special privileges because of what they believe in.

Of course, Australia is not a perfect place and there are needs for improvements in everywhere, but I don't think there are such utopia as a perfect place.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I would say that any belief system that proclaims itself as "the truth" does not promote peace and cannot promote peace since it fosters division and promotes a severe form of tribalism.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
What the... the link is blocked here in Saudi Arabia :confused:

Anyways, I believe that Islam does promote peace in a bigger picture point of view, and I personally promote piece being a Muslim and I would never ever think of forcing or even pushing anyone to embrace Islam, nor disrespect their beliefs or thoughts!
 

ranvirk

Member
Ok so my honest opinion, Islam and Muslims promotes peace as long as it's in minority . When they are in majority , it's their way or the highway
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
I would say that any belief system that proclaims itself as "the truth" does not promote peace and cannot promote peace since it fosters division and promotes a severe form of tribalism.

Then you are clearly unaware of this statement in the Baha'i scriptures:

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."

—(Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Well as a start point, all the verses quoted are out of context

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ering-bassam-khourys-claims-about-quraan.html

Anyone can make any book say whatever they want. But let me just say that in Quraan, there are 6236 verses. Out of these there are 90 verses fighting. Why fighting is mentioned in Quraan? Because a religion needs to touch on everything and this includes wars. Because wars will be there as long as we live on earth.

Yet the focus comes only on these 90 verses and be put out of context.

If we want to talk about the righteousness in the Quraan, we can write a book, but yet nobody mentions that.

For example, this is what is mentioned about Righteousness ONLY in chapter 2

2:177 Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

41: And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me. ( fear only Me فاتقون)
48: And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be taken from it, nor will they be aided. ( fear a day واتقوا)
103: And if they had believed and feared Allah , then the reward from Allah would have been [far] better, if they only knew. (feared Allah واتقوا)

123: And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, and no compensation will be accepted from it, nor will any intercession benefit it, nor will they be aided.( fear a day واتقوا)
179 And there is for you in legal retribution [saving of] life, O you [people] of understanding, that you may become righteous.
180: Prescribed for you when death approaches [any] one of you if he leaves wealth [is that he should make] a bequest for the parents and near relatives according to what is acceptable - a duty upon the righteous. (المتقين)
183: O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous –( تتقون)

187: It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous. (يتقون)
206: And when it is said to him, "Fear Allah ," pride in the sin takes hold of him. Sufficient for him is Hellfire, and how wretched is the resting place
(fear Allah اتق)
223:Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.
224: And do not make [your oath by] Allah an excuse against being righteous and fearing Allah and making peace among people. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
231: And when you divorce women and they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or release them according to acceptable terms, and do not keep them, intending harm, to transgress [against them]. And whoever does that has certainly wronged himself. And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things. (fear Allah واتقوا)
233 Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do. ( fear Allah واتقوا)

237 And if you divorce them before you have touched them and you have already specified for them an obligation, then [give] half of what you specified - unless they forego the right or the one in whose hand is the marriage contract foregoes it. And to forego it is nearer to righteousness. And do not forget graciousness between you. Indeed Allah , of whatever you do, is Seeing. (nearer to righteousness للتقوى)
241 And for divorced women is a provision according to what is acceptable - a duty upon the righteous. (المتقين)

278 O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers. ( fear Allah)
281 And fear a Day when you will be returned to Allah . Then every soul will be compensated for what it earned, and they will not be treated unjustly.( fear a day)
282 O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is [grave] disobedience in you. And fear Allah . And Allah teaches you. And Allah is Knowing of all things. (fear Allah)
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Sorry, but what are SUPPOSEDLY taught in the Qur'an or in one of the Islamic traditions, and what actually happened (as in real life), are 2 different things.

If real life or real event don't meet with what is taught, then Islam has failed.

Muslims seemed to believe that the Qur'an and Allah are not the only integral parts of Islam. The prophet and messenger Muhammad is integral, and clearly essential part of Islam.

Muhammad may have been fighting for his own survival, and the lives of his followers and his new fledgling religion, and this may be called "self defense". But when Muhammad's army besieged and attack Banu Qurayza's stronghold, that can no longer be called "self defense". The fate of those who surrendered is certainly not what I called "peaceful".

And when your army seeking out to punish those who persecuted, you are no longer defenders (or fighting in self defense), but attackers.

Muslims also see that the centuries of successive empires (and their rulers) that came after Muhammad's death as being part of the history of Islam, then in essence, the Islamic empires are integral to Islam too.

When these successive empires that sprout up after Muhammad's death, enter another kingdom or country with armies, like when they attack Sassanian (Persian) empire and the Byzantine empire, that's no longer action of "self defense".

These empires may have become corrupted and decadence, but invasion is an "invasion", and no amount of the Qur'an can disguise it as attack on another sovereign nation.

If what happened in real life, like those wars that Muhammad, or later rulers have fought, are part of Islam and its history, then you could hardly called Islam a religion of peace.

Are individual Muslims peaceful in general, then I would say that a great many are, but there are great many who aren't peaceful. It really depend on each individual's actions.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but what are SUPPOSEDLY taught in the Qur'an or in one of the Islamic traditions, and what actually happened (as in real life), are 2 different things.

Judge a car by its quality, not by drivers


If real life or real event don't meet with what is taught, then Islam has failed.

Religion of God never fails, it is perfect

Muslims seemed to believe that the Qur'an and Allah are not the only integral parts of Islam. The prophet and messenger Muhammad is integral, and clearly essential part of Islam.
He is the one to look up too.

Muhammad may have been fighting for his own survival, and the lives of his followers and his new fledgling religion, and this may be called "self defense". But when Muhammad's army besieged and attack Banu Qurayza's stronghold, that can no longer be called "self defense". The fate of those who surrendered is certainly not what I called "peaceful"
.

Banu Qurayza were minority living with the muslims, and they were protecting each other by a treaty. During a war Banu Qurayza broke their treaty, in a middle of war. And the prohet wasn't the one who gave the decision to kill them, because Bany Qurayza asked that the judge be one of the muslims who was one of them before he came to Islam.

And when your army seeking out to punish those who persecuted, you are no longer defenders (or fighting in self defense), but attackers.
They should have said thank you for breaking the treaty

Muslims also see that the centuries of successive empires (and their rulers) that came after Muhammad's death as being part of the history of Islam, then in essence, the Islamic empires are integral to Islam too.

When these successive empires that sprout up after Muhammad's death, enter another kingdom or country with armies, like when they attack Sassanian (Persian) empire and the Byzantine empire, that's no longer action of "self defense".

History can easy be manipulated.

To see the real muslims, see how they entered Andalous in Spain.

These empires may have become corrupted and decadence, but invasion is an "invasion", and no amount of the Qur'an can disguise it as attack on another sovereign nation.

If what happened in real life, like those wars that Muhammad, or later rulers have fought, are part of Islam and its history, then you could hardly called Islam a religion of peace.

Yeah and I bet muslims started WW1 and WW2 and every single war in the world

Are individual Muslims peaceful in general, then I would say that a great many are, but there are great many who aren't peaceful. It really depend on each individual's actions.

Am sure peaceful muslims are those who you met, and the none peaceful are just those the media make up
 

gnostic

The Lost One
one-answer said:
Banu Qurayza were minority living with the muslims, and they were protecting each other by a treaty. During a war Banu Qurayza broke their treaty, in a middle of war. And the prohet wasn't the one who gave the decision to kill them, because Bany Qurayza asked that the judge be one of the muslims who was one of them before he came to Islam.

While it is true that Muhammad didn't give the judgment, but Muhammad was the prophet, their commander or general (or if you like, their commander-in-chief), their political leader, he could have overrule the judgment at any time, and could have show them mercy, but he didn't.

In war, as well as in politics, there is a chain in command, in which the above is responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

Muhammad was head of the army, not Sa'd ibn Mu'adh or Abu Lubaba or any of Muhammad's captains or lieutenants. That being the case, the ultimate decisions are his, therefore the ultimate responsibility for the actions of his officers and men are his.

Muhammad was there, as meaning "been present" during the judgment, and didn't do anything to change the verdict, so he is responsible for the execution of the men who didn't convert, and the enslavement of women and children.

To deny Muhammad's responsibility is ludicrous. All these actions towards the Qurayza suggest that Muhammad and his men were never interested in peace, unless the Qurayza had all converted to Islam. The blood of Qurayza is as much on Muhammad's own hands, as those who carry out the judgment.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
one-answer said:
History can easy be manipulated.

Yes. I know.

I have been saying all along that Muhamamd's historians and biographers have manipulated history in any ways they wanted. Muhammad and his companions were the victor in this war, and we don't hear anything or read anything on the side of Banu Qurayza or the Banu Nadir.

It is one-sided history, given by the victors.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think it's accurate to say that Islam promotes peace. The Qur'an promotes the spread of Islam, and because of that, it can't promote peace only. Sure, there are verses which encourage peace amongst Muslims and non-Muslims, but like reality, there is a balance of peace and more violent times.

It's not accurate to say Islam means peace; it means submission to God... Two different things.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
ssainhu said:
I don't think it's accurate to say that Islam promotes peace. The Qur'an promotes the spread of Islam, and because of that, it can't promote peace only. Sure, there are verses which encourage peace amongst Muslims and non-Muslims, but like reality, there is a balance of peace and more violent times.

It's not accurate to say Islam means peace; it means submission to God... Two different things.

Now that the most sensible and insightful post yet. :yes:
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
While it is true that Muhammad didn't give the judgment, but Muhammad was the prophet, their commander or general (or if you like, their commander-in-chief), their political leader, he could have overrule the judgment at any time, and could have show them mercy, but he didn't.

I repeat, it was them who didn't want the prophet to judge.

In war, as well as in politics, there is a chain in command, in which the above is responsible for the actions of his subordinates.
I repeat, it was them who didn't want the prophet to judge.

Muhammad was head of the army, not Sa'd ibn Mu'adh or Abu Lubaba or any of Muhammad's captains or lieutenants. That being the case, the ultimate decisions are his, therefore the ultimate responsibility for the actions of his officers and men are his.
I repeat, it was them who didn't want the prophet to judge and asked specifically for Sa'd ibn Mu'adh.

Muhammad was there, as meaning "been present" during the judgment, and didn't do anything to change the verdict, so he is responsible for the execution of the men who didn't convert, and the enslavement of women and children.
THEY BETRAYED DURING WAR. AND IF THEIR PLAN WORKED, ISLAM WOULD HAVE BEEN GONE FOR GOOD. It wasn't about men who didn't convert or the children or the women !

To deny Muhammad's responsibility is ludicrous. All these actions towards the Qurayza suggest that Muhammad and his men were never interested in peace, unless the Qurayza had all converted to Islam. The blood of Qurayza is as much on Muhammad's own hands, as those who carry out the judgment

He should have just forgave them so they would do it again
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Yes. I know.

I have been saying all along that Muhamamd's historians and biographers have manipulated history in any ways they wanted. Muhammad and his companions were the victor in this war, and we don't hear anything or read anything on the side of Banu Qurayza or the Banu Nadir.

It is one-sided history, given by the victors.


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

All this history manipulation about muslims and making Quraan say what it doesn't say by taking it out of context, and we are the ones who are changing history !

You know with all this media and claims against Islam, it is still the fastest growing religion !

I know that not all people know the truth about Islam, and some attack it out of what they hear, but truth will still prevail because God has said.

9:32 They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
 
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