Does having a religion make you a better person?

[InChrist]

No. I am saying that:

1. the Bible contains both good and evil standards, commandments and morals
2. most (if not all) of the assorted Christianities adhere to doctrines that are both good and evil
3. That the beliefs of Christianity makes it difficult, if not impossible, for Christians to acknowledge those faults
4. and that the inability to make such an admission is the greatest evil, because it disallows honest remediation of those views.

You care about protecting your rep and the rep of the Bible and Jesus. I care about empathy, equity, reciprocity and cooperation, and the effects of beliefs and actions on my fellow beings.

I don’t understand what you mean when you say the Bible contains both good and evil standards, commandments, and morals. From what I understand concerning the Bible, it condemns evil and upholds good.

As far as me protecting the reputation of Jesus or God’s words in the scriptures goes, I’m sure God doesn’t need me, a mere finite mortal, to do that.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I disagree, as well I think the scriptures do. Some people think because they are an American, got baptized as an infant, or were raised going to church then they are a Christian.

Your post goes on, using the classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy, also known as the argument from purity. It is illogical.

The truth is, that if someone says that Jesus is teh messiah who died for their sins, they are Christian, even if they are a serial killer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I disagree, as well I think the scriptures do. Some people think because they are an American, got baptized as an infant, or were raised going to church then they are a Christian.

“Also, some believe their recitation of a prayer or responding to an “altar call” alone may have turned them into a Christian. Many believe their religious traditions, such as being baptized as an infant, secured a spot in heaven for them, or that their plentiful good works alone have put them in good standing with God. And, of course, some believe church attendance alone guarantees salvation. The point is that many who profess to be Christians are not Christians at all. Yet they complacently remain convinced that all is well with their soul. Sadly, many will live their entire lives believing they were Christians only to one day hear these words from Jesus Christ: “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:23).”

Why are there so many fake Christians? | GotQuestions.org

Why are there so many fake Christians? Why do so many people claim to be Christians, but don’t live like Christians should?

www.gotquestions.org

Now, let’s say there a man who’s been an elder at church for ten years. He leads a Bible study, he takes communion, he prays beautiful prayers, counsels church members, and does all the things a Christian usually does. Everyone thinks he’s such a godly man. Yet, behind closed doors he’s abusive and controlling with his wife and kids. He knows how to hit where bruises won’t be visible to others. He reads and uses the Bible as a weapon against his family to threaten and control them. He has so deceived himself to believe he is a good Christian that is simply leading his family in godliness.
There is no way I would believe someone like this is a born again believer whose life has been submitted to and transformed by Jesus Christ.

“What Christians will not do, however, is engage in repeated or habitual sin (1 John 3:6). One who engages in deliberate and habitual sin is simply proving that he does not know Christ and therefore cannot be abiding in Him even though he may live his life under the vast umbrella of religion and is thought, therefore, by many to be a Christian.”

Why are there so many fake Christians? | GotQuestions.org

Why are there so many fake Christians? Why do so many people claim to be Christians, but don’t live like Christians should?

www.gotquestions.org

The Bible says it's not your place judge them, and it is you who are the so-called "fake Christian."
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? -Matthew 7:1-3

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? -James 4:12

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. -Romans 2:1

 

[InChrist]

American politics, really - where does the lion's of the anti-Abortion, anti-LGBT, etc., legislation get its justification from?

Talk to someone who says "They kicked God out of the schools!" and ask them if any god who can get "kicked out" was worthy of worship in the first place.
And if they advocate for public prayer, let them know that Mecca is that-a-way:
View attachment 81795

...and watch the fun begin.

I don't know how much experience you've had with such types; I've had too much.

Well, American politics is influenced by and made up of all kinds of people who express their opinions and vote in various ways. That’s the way it is in the US. Some are Christians, many are not, some may be more vocal and some may tie their beliefs to politics too much. But whatever, in the U.S. anyone, Christians or otherwise, are supposed to have the opportunity to influence policies, laws, etc.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

American politics, really - where does the lion's of the anti-Abortion, anti-LGBT, etc., legislation get its justification from?

I'm generalizing here, but conservatives tend to have ethics that place the wellbeing of the community above all else, while liberals have ethics that place the wellbeing of the individual above all else.

 

[InChrist]

Your post goes on, using the classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy, also known as the argument from purity. It is illogical.

The truth is, that if someone says that Jesus is teh messiah who died for their sins, they are Christian, even if they are a serial killer.

Read this again:

What Christians will not do, however, is engage in repeated or habitual sin (1 John 3:6). One who engages in deliberate and habitual sin is simply proving that he does not know Christ and therefore cannot be abiding in Him even though he may live his life under the vast umbrella of religion and is thought, therefore, by many to be a Christian.”

Why are there so many fake Christians? | ​

www.gotquestions.organize

 

[InChrist]

The Bible says it's not your place judge them, and it is you who are the so-called "fake Christian."
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? -Matthew 7:1-3

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? -James 4:12

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. -Romans 2:1

Jesus was not saying that His followers should not judge or exercise discernment. He was stressing that they should not judge with hypocrisy or with self-righteousness. We are called to use discernment and judge things so we can make wise choices. We are also called to judge false doctrines and teachers. As Christians, we are to judge rightly by using the Word of God as our standard for judgment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus was not saying that His followers should not judge or exercise discernment. He was stressing that they should not judge with hypocrisy or with self-righteousness. We are called to use discernment and judge things so we can make wise choices. We are also called to judge false doctrines and teachers. As Christians, we are to judge rightly by using the Word of God as our standard for judgment.

Except that wasn't just Jesus and it never specified that condition. James says there is one law giver and asks us who are you, human, to judge, amd Paul says you are guilty of doing what you judge others of.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Read this again:

What Christians will not do, however, is engage in repeated or habitual sin (1 John 3:6).

Yeah, that's just not reality.

 

[sun rise]

I don’t understand what you mean when you say the Bible contains both good and evil standards, commandments, and morals. From what I understand concerning the Bible, it condemns evil and upholds good.

If someone upholds the Bible in its entirety then what about the passage where a "righteous" man offered his virgin daughters to a mob? Gen 19:8 or where a daughter committed incest with his father Gen 19:30-38. Or being put to death for cursing one's parent Ex 21:17 and so forth.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I answered the poll question under the presumption that "you" was directed at me specifically. In reading some of the responses, I realize that some answered under the presumption that "you" is being used generally, as in a person/people in general.

Based on the ambiguous language used in the poll, the results are likely inaccurate.

 

[ChristineM]

The religion or lack thereof presumably has an effect on actions and behaviour?

True, I've seen religion produce negative behaviours in people

 

[LuisDantas]

Generally speaking, probably not.

However, people who go out of their ways to state that they are religious tend to be worse than they would otherwise be. It is very frequent for people who are uncertain about their own ethics or religiosity to try to compensate with overt displays of religiosity and, particularly, of belief in some version of the Abrahamic god.

 

[InChrist]

Except that wasn't just Jesus and it never specified that condition. James says there is one law giver and asks us who are you, human, to judge, amd Paul says you are guilty of doing what you judge others of.

Throughout the NT it is specified how believers are to judge rightly or wrongly. Definitely I agree with James that believers are not to speak evil of one another and ultimately God is the only judge. Nevertheless, that is not implying that Christians are to let evil have a free pass. Do you think Christians are to ignore illicit or abusive behavior they become aware of; a woman or children being harmed or molested? Paul was clear that Christians are to judge amongst themselves and purge evil.

“For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

And Jesus said His followers would be known by their fruits…

You will know them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:15-20

Paul elaborates on what these fruits look like…

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Galatians 5:22-26

 

[InChrist]

If someone upholds the Bible in its entirety then what about the passage where a "righteous" man offered his virgin daughters to a mob? Gen 19:8 or where a daughter committed incest with his father Gen 19:30-38. Or being put to death for cursing one's parent Ex 21:17 and so forth.

To start with, the passages or events you are referring to were before the time of Christ, the age of Grace, when believers who put their faith in Christ are born again to new life in Christ.
I don’t believe the scriptures call Lot righteous because his behavior was so good. In the instance you mention, I’d say his actions were horrendously wrong. I think he is called righteous in the Bible simply because in his day and in that culture he was one of the few that “believed” in God. Just as righteousness was accounted to Abraham earlier because he believed God. The OT had a lot of laws in place specifically for the nation of Israel, which seem extreme ( Ex.21:17), but they were to set Israel apart and portray the importance of God’s perfection, requirements, and laws. Disrespect and rebellion against God’s established authority was not acceptable in Israel.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you think Christians are to ignore illicit or abusive behavior they become aware of; a woman or children being harmed or molested? Paul was clear that Christians are to judge amongst themselves and purge evil.

That has nothing to do with the discussionbat hand. Reporting knowledge of child abuse, for example, isn't judging someone and is to help protect another.
Calling people "fake Christians" is you judging their Christianness as false. But you don't know the heart like god, and certainly there are Christians who accuse you of being false for their reasons. Afterall, all Christians still continue to fail and displease their god and do that sin thing you do. That's also Biblical.
So how are their sins making them false but not your own?

 

[InChrist]

That has nothing to do with the discussionbat hand. Reporting knowledge of child abuse, for example, isn't judging someone and is to help protect another.
Calling people "fake Christians" is you judging their Christianness as false. But you don't know the heart like god, and certainly there are Christians who accuse you of being false for their reasons. Afterall, all Christians still continue to fail and displease their god and do that sin thing you do. That's also Biblical.
So how are their sins making them false but not your own?

There’s this biblical process called sanctification where by God’s power a Christian’s life is continuously being changed to become more like Christ. A born again believer should be demonstrating change and repentance in their life, as opposed to habitual sin. I sure don’t claim to be some perfect Christian, but changed me in many ways over the years.

“I want to re-visit and re-affirm the fact — and it is a fact — that the abuser is not and cannot be a Christian. A person who is ruled by a mentality of entitlement, of power and control over others, who so lacks a conscience that he feels absolutely justified in the evil tactics he utilizes to get what he wants and to rule over his victims, is not a new creation in Christ. And I need to continue to affirm this because it is being denied in our churches. I know it is being denied because I continue to receive first-hand reports from Christians who are victims of terrible, ongoing (usually for decades) abuse who verify that their pastors and elders and fellow Christians are insisting that the abuser IS a Christian.

In this article then, I want to re-post Scripture which emphatically declares in plain, obvious terms that a truly re-generate person does not walk in the mentality and practices that the abuser does. A Christian can mistreat someone; but a Christian will repent of that sin and turn from it. Abusers do not. In their grandiose narcissism they refuse to receive correction, they will not acknowledge their sin and take full responsibility for it, and though they will claim repentance, their claim is a lie. They continue to walk in their sin. It is their nature. It is who they are. And that nature is the nature of the flesh, not of the new creation in Christ. Abusers are not Christians, and yet victims are being criticized and chastised by their pastors and fellow believers for making this conclusion.”

Why an Abuser Cannot be a Christian: The Argument Re-stated

I want to re-visit and re-affirm the fact — and it is a fact — that the abuser is not and cannot be a Christian. A person who is ruled by a mentality of entitlement, of power and contro…

cryingoutforjustice.blog

 

[We Never Know]

Some people might believe that the religious are supreme to the non-religious while the non-religious might seem themselves as supreme to the religious.

IMO you are either a good person or you aren't.
Religion or lack of has nothing to do with it.

 

[danieldemol]

Question! Question! Question! Who taught you these things? Men. Religious leaders. Who gave them their authority? Not God but other men!! So they are dressed up in robes or whatever, practicing some sort of holier than thou attitude to make themselves and whatever they say appear holy and from God but it’s all fake and nonsense. No God ever gave them any special power, authority or knowledge yet people allow these imposters to control their very lives and dictate to them right and wrong, good and bad and immoral and moral.

That’s the grave mistake billions of religious people have made.

Its the grave mistake millions of Baha'i and assorted others have made in following those imposters known as the prophets in my view.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There’s this biblical process called sanctification where by God’s power a Christian’s life is continuously being changed to become more like Christ. A born again believer should be demonstrating change and repentance in their life, as opposed to habitual sin. I sure don’t claim to be some perfect Christian, but changed me in many ways over the years.

“I want to re-visit and re-affirm the fact — and it is a fact — that the abuser is not and cannot be a Christian. A person who is ruled by a mentality of entitlement, of power and control over others, who so lacks a conscience that he feels absolutely justified in the evil tactics he utilizes to get what he wants and to rule over his victims, is not a new creation in Christ. And I need to continue to affirm this because it is being denied in our churches. I know it is being denied because I continue to receive first-hand reports from Christians who are victims of terrible, ongoing (usually for decades) abuse who verify that their pastors and elders and fellow Christians are insisting that the abuser IS a Christian.

In this article then, I want to re-post Scripture which emphatically declares in plain, obvious terms that a truly re-generate person does not walk in the mentality and practices that the abuser does. A Christian can mistreat someone; but a Christian will repent of that sin and turn from it. Abusers do not. In their grandiose narcissism they refuse to receive correction, they will not acknowledge their sin and take full responsibility for it, and though they will claim repentance, their claim is a lie. They continue to walk in their sin. It is their nature. It is who they are. And that nature is the nature of the flesh, not of the new creation in Christ. Abusers are not Christians, and yet victims are being criticized and chastised by their pastors and fellow believers for making this conclusion.”

Why an Abuser Cannot be a Christian: The Argument Re-stated

I want to re-visit and re-affirm the fact — and it is a fact — that the abuser is not and cannot be a Christian. A person who is ruled by a mentality of entitlement, of power and contro…

cryingoutforjustice.blog

That just ignores my points to try to shift focus.
You too are a sinner who does things other Christians say make you a false Christian. What makes you any different from them?