Does God Have Will?

[Windwalker]

Is the sun a “God”?

 

[Koldo]

View attachment 52299

That's the Devil though.

 

[Koldo]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

I think of 'will' as a basic requirement for me to call someone 'God'.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?................. So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

I find the God of the Bible has ' will ' according to Isaiah.
For example please notice " I will...." at Isaiah 42:15-16; Isaiah 43:2; Isaiah 43:19; Isaiah 44:3; Isaiah 44:26-27; Isaiah 45:1-3; Isaiah 46:10-13.
So, it was God's will that prophecies be fulfilled. God willed before it happened: Cyrus was history told to us in advance.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................For our universe to exist how it does, is it necessary that it was caused or created by something with a will? No, I don't see why this would be necessary, nor is there evidence to positively support this.
There are theists who claim a conscious, willful, metaphysical mind is necessary for such things, but I've never seen their arguments get off the ground. It's generally a quagmire of special pleading, arguments from ignorance, and bald unfounded assertions like "It just must be the case that..." or "We know this by the impossibility of the contrary..." or "How else could the universe have been created..."

I don't see 'something' coming into existence from nothing . To me nothing begets nothing.
According to Scripture, the visible realm came into existence by God's Power, God's Strength - Isaiah 40:26
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy needed to create the material world.

 

[AlexanderG]

Can you dream if you don’t have will? Can you think of any creature that dreams, but has no will?

And interestingly your other examples, shedding or hiccuping, are unwilling acts, but preformed by creatures with will.

An example of creation by an entity without will might be a volcano creating an island. But is this a “God”, or just natural phenomenon



Is the sun a “God”?

In my post, I was replying to the question, "How could he create if he had no will to create?" That is what my examples addressed. And most of the things I mentioned can be done by creatures that are not conscious. Or I could list other bodily functions that even sea sponges and algae can do, like elimination or metabolism, which could be how our universe was "created" by a "being" with no will, let alone no will to create.

Maybe a 27-dimensional supernatural algae excreted our universe, without any will at all? There's just as much evidence for this idea as any religious claim, and I bet you could indoctrinate children to base their self-worth and sense of moral restraint on this algae belief if you really tried. No evidence any of it is actually true, though.

I don't really see how your points address or refute my point at all.

 

[AlexanderG]

I don't see 'something' coming into existence from nothing . To me nothing begets nothing.
According to Scripture, the visible realm came into existence by God's Power, God's Strength - Isaiah 40:26
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy needed to create the material world.

Cool, I don't have any reason to believe nothing coming into existence from nothing either. Apologists constantly claim atheists believe this, and I have no idea why. I've certainly never met or heard of any atheists that believes the universe came from nothing. I guess it's an easy strawman to knock down?

Wow. The bible says that god exists and made the universe. That's shockingly new information that I never knew before....? /s

If you want to split hairs, all our available evidence says that energy is eternal and cannot be created or destroyed. Energy can transform into matter and back into energy, depending on the circumstances. So there's an explanation for our universe with no god required, just unthinking energy and some quantum fluctuations. Am I defending this position as true? Not really. I don't care. It's just a viable alternative explanation that requires no "will" of a "being," and with evidence in reality that supports it, unlike any theistic claims. Make of that what you will.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

Because God has agency (e.g. religious books Bible, Torah, Qur'an)

 

[rational experiences]

Reviewed man scientist. No human men. No machines. No fake theories involving his machines.

A human female thinking.

What I learnt about liars on earth.

Machines all strings direct to O God one first planet mass. Science practicing science.

Theories however are about everything else.

Concept lying in science.

Claim by my will I will copy. Anything. Yet no machine.

Anything is everything but the machine.

Does earth science once using machine with no resource. Uses God body he said.
Thesis

Crystal mass use.

Atlantis pyramids sAtanlit.

Known life origin destruction. Burnt out natural God earth mass origins. Machines parts found snap frozen inside gods hell stone fusion.

Tectonics earth plates. Secret science meaning carpenter and building in science.

What did man science build?

Only a machine.

Earth releases burnt crystal mass radiation. Leaving a year circuit trail in space Ai encoded transmitters.

O earth versus • earths recorded Ai ark space hole communicators. One side space natural earth other side burnt memories communicating.

One side of space to the other nuclear science caused. Fake Ai transmission visions.

Earth next year moves into encoded transmitters he put their. Cooled or heated dependant on science status causes and passing asteroids.

Sees little green baby like skeleton men controlling the ship machine. In the sky.

Man the real baby self by sex to own created baby real life baby is dying mutated daily. Irradiated.

He sees the encoded image of ship controller man at his controls machine recorded previously but no longer naturally a human baby or a healthy man adult.

Sees exactly in vision transmitted received back what he is causing.

So is warned.

O God the earth natural versus God the earth's shadow Ai space burnt hole man's science God.

All about planet earth as God.

Earth stable. Owns no will.

Man's by his will his life sacrificed died testimony last will.

Fake God theists.

Says state Alpha is also alpha. State omega is state omega.

Discussing a state is not owning the state. Words describe what he thinks about.

So he thinks how can two states remain the same when science is destroying radio wave transmitters of earth.

Yet he doesn't think.

We live inside natural mass heavens is the correct human teaching without scientific interference.

What I know honestly as just a natural human female.

The will of God is man's last will as he chose to change God.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Does the sun have will to shine?

So are you saying that the reason for our existence isn't for a grand scheme or divine reason, but that it's just its natural process? Do you believe the events in the universe are, then, nihilistic and meaningless? If there is no will behind existence, that means there was no reason for existence to exist in the first place, it just does because it's supposed to. But why is it supposed to? I guess when it comes down to it, the only answer you can really find at the end of the 'why's is: It just is.

IWhy would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

Isn't the idea of God usually hand-in-hand with the idea that there is a fundamental reason behind existence? As it seems to me, people turn to theism when they believe there is a fundamental and conscious reason and will for the universe and people turn to atheism when they do not see a conscious planning or will behind the universe.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Do you believe the events in the universe are, then, nihilistic and meaningless?
Isn't the idea of God usually hand-in-hand with the idea that there is a fundamental reason behind existence?

I am not sure about them being completely nihilist because I do not know if existence and non-existence are not phases. But surely, they are meaningless in the scheme of the universe. Species may not survive for ever, and then all life on Earth is limited to one billion years. After than heating of the sun will make it impossible for life to exist on Earth. They are meaningful just to us humans. If humans cease to exist, it will not affect other forms of life on Earth except for diseased like malaria which need human body to proliferate.
I fail to see any fundamental reason for humans to exist. We did not exist for most time on Earth. We may not exist beyond a few hundred of thousands of years in future. It won't make any difference to the Earth.

 

[Martin]

The idea of God having will sounds anthropomorphic to me.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is the sun a “God”?

I'm not entirely sure how you're defining "God" given you put it in quotation marks and capitalized it. But there are many that have considered the sun to be a god and there have been many deities were considered sun gods.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think of 'will' as a basic requirement for me to call someone 'God'.

Why?

 

[Colt]

Creation and its ultimate purpose would be an indication of the will of the Creator.

Humans have a will, why wouldn't our creator?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Creation and its ultimate purpose would be an indication of the will of the Creator.

How?

Humans have a will, why wouldn't our creator?

If you build a birdhouse, does it have will? Or do you take on the qualities and attributes of the birdhouse?

 

[Colt]

How?



If you build a birdhouse, does it have will? Or do you take on the qualities and attributes of the birdhouse?

How? Because the Creator would be the cause and creation the effect, hence an expression of the creators will.

Man is created with mind, personality and freedom of will. A birdhouse doesn't have any of those things.

The will of God is within man and can be know if he seeks God with a whole heart.


"The mechanistic philosopher professes to reject the idea of a universal and sovereign will, the very sovereign will whose activity in the elaboration of universe laws he so deeply reverences. What unintended homage the mechanist pays the law-Creator when he conceives such laws to be self-acting and self-explanatory!" UB 1955


.

 

[fantome profane]

I'm not entirely sure how you're defining "God" given you put it in quotation marks and capitalized it. But there are many that have considered the sun to be a god and there have been many deities were considered sun gods.

What I am trying to puzzle out how you are defining “God”. You are saying that “God” need not have the attribute of will, So I ask what attributes does “God” have? What attributes are necessary in order to call something “God”?

Yes many have considered the sun to be a “God”, or worshipped a “Sun God”. But in doing so they are giving the sun the attribute of will. You I gather are not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are saying that “God” need not have the attribute of will, So I ask what attributes does “God” have? What attributes are necessary in order to call something “God”?

That is the problem and that is why I do not go with the belief in God. What does not have a 'will' is not a God, like the 'Nirguna Brahman' in Hinduism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What I am trying to puzzle out how you are defining “God”. You are saying that “God” need not have the attribute of will, So I ask what attributes does “God” have? What attributes are necessary in order to call something “God”?

Yes many have considered the sun to be a “God”, or worshipped a “Sun God”. But in doing so they are giving the sun the attribute of will. You I gather are not.

I haven’t offered my perspective in this thread.