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Do you prefer the villains to win

Discussion in 'The Arts' started by Sha'irullah, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    I am perhaps one of the few people who likes it when the villain wins. One of my favorite films of all time is No Country for Old Men and I like it for this very reason. The villain does atrocious things and gets away and even kills the main hero of the film.
    For some reason I cannot appreciate characters unless they are depraved and this especially goes for fantasy works where characters are given super human powers yet retain their moral behavior which I find to be utterly ludicrous.

    Am I alone on this?
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I prefer that the good guys win.
    But I also prefer that they be less than perfect people.
     
  3. CynthiaCypher

    CynthiaCypher Well-Known Member

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    Like Patrick Bateman? That guy couldn't lose for winning.
     
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    You are hardly alone, Philotech. But I am not on that boat, generally.

    I do however appreciate mortality-bound tales. I like little more than a good old-fashioned heroic sacrifice.
     
  5. xkatz

    xkatz Well-Known Member

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    I think some of the best stories I have seen is where the hero is an anti-hero and the villain has a valid reason for being "evil".
     
  6. ametist

    ametist Active Member

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    i like fantastic hero movies. it is ok if they are super heros, too. so i like good guys to win. afterall, being super hero and still losing would be rather dumb. then i guess i like to watch boring movies end of which are already determined :) i remember a movie where good guys had lost for no good ******* reason. it was called event horizon and perhaps given my age at that time also, i was pretty much shaken by that movie. it was a total disturbance.
    i think i feel there should be good reasons for good guys to lose. but when it is already given as good guy in the movie, how can there be such a thing? they just cant lose and if the story is forced to make them lose then it turns out to the genre of simple brutality or a bad movie. then i guess i dont also enjoy brutality as the goal or the ending. But it is ok if super heros can kick a couple of ***** in a decent way and i wouldnt mind that ..like when terminator empties whole coffin full of loaded guns onto a group of police officers and police cars but injures or hurts none, gets the john o'connor out of the crypt. it is so sweet:)
     
    #6 ametist, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  7. CynthiaCypher

    CynthiaCypher Well-Known Member

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    I for one would love to see Lex Luthor kick Superman's *** for once. Lex Luthor is sexy.
     
  8. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Not so much in movies but I rooted for the coyote to catch the roadrunner for years. Then someone constructed a youtube video where the coyote did just that. There was a catch though, several actually. And if 4 letter words bother you don't watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[youtube]yAyNh6MCHws[/youtube]
     
    #8 sun rise, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  9. StarryNightshade

    StarryNightshade Folk Catholic
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    It depends on the story, character, motive, catharsis, pathos, etc.
     
  10. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    :thud: I am speechless, but then again bald headed guys are very handsome
     
  11. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    I would love for the conqueror type villains to live. For example int he usual alien movie plots where the aliens attempt to take over the world but leave their own weaknesses exposed for some stupid reason.
    I do not like the psychotic villains but instead the very cold and ruthless ones.

    My top villains for examples are
    • Sauron (Lord of the Rings)
    • Madara (Naruto)
    • Thulsa Doom (Conan the Barbarian)
    • Darth Sidius (Star Wars)
      Fire-Wind (7 Swords)

    The conqueror type villains who plunder and lay waste to nations are the best because they seem to be more representative of human desire. Essentially pure hedonism
     
  12. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    No, you're not alone in it, but it's not something I share.

    If the villains win, it makes me all depressed, and not want to do anything. My work and overall quality of life suffers.

    If the heroes win, it makes me feel happy and inspired, and I am much more motivated to work and make a better life for myself.

    Because if the heroes can win, then I can win.

    But I do agree with one point: a character who loses nothing is a boring character. A victory gained without struggle or loss is no victory; it's masturbation. Sure, there's a place for that, but not in a story that's supposed to feature fully-developed, 3-dimensional characters. Deprive the hero, and make them suffer. It makes their victory all the sweeter.
     
  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein On the funeral pyre of existence
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    No, I prefer the heroes to win. I like happy, inspiring endings.
     
  14. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    You would probably like the Midnight RPG setting. It's basically just that: the war for good and evil happened, and good lost. The characters (being an RPG, that's generally you and your friends) are generally just trying to survive.

    Thieves' World is also a bit like that, and has a series of novels to go with it. The main character/villain of that series is a guy called Tempus Thales, and he's the Earthly representative of the Goddess of War and Rape.
     
  15. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    I prefer the good guys to win. I also am in favor of the bad guys becoming good guys (which hardly ever happens). But then, there are likable bad guys.
     
  16. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    One of the big reasons I liked Babylon 5 so much is that who was good and who was evil was not obvious and changed over time. Gollum in LoTR is also ambiguous, precious.
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It depends on the story. But I do favor "heroes" who are anti-heroes and heroes only because of a particular perspective who may be painted as villains. It's even better when you can't really say who is a good or bad guy.
     
  18. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    My Nerd Senses are tingling! :D
     
  19. Alex_G

    Alex_G Enlightner of the Senses

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    Ah i find that the villains are always far more interesting characters in general than the heroes. They so often have fascinating psychology and backstories that lead them to where they are.
    Heroes are so often just 'dumb and good-looking', having a very naive simplistic moral sense.

    Having said that, the villains still need to loose :p. What makes them so interesting and appealing is their decent into darkness, loss of who they once were, the 'normality' of their past life left behind them. Their very life story is a metaphorical 'death' in itself, which makes their ultimate failure/ actual death befitting/destined to all that they are.

    I mean a 'happy ever after' for the villain is just paradoxical, and not possible :p There is always an 'ok so what next?'. They are self-destructively persistent such that the only true end to their story must be failure/death.

    I am reminded of that Dark Knight quote 'you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain'.

    The villain always therefore has a good and interesting backstory, often with them beginning as heroic. It seems such 'classical heroes' are rooted in innocence and youth, whereas the villain is forged out of long experience.

    There is an interesting discussion to be had about what traits are generally presented as heroic or villainous, and why they are.

    Why is the hero so often young, good-looking, naive etc.? Sometimes I think we place desirable/attractive human traits onto the hero, and confuse them with what in fact defines ‘heroic’.
    With generations of kids growing up thinking that what makes a hero is muscles, a strong jaw, white teeth smile, charisma with the ladies etc. This ‘confused’ stereotype portrayal of a ‘hero’ is why I so often dislike them. These traits are given to the character so that he is ‘liked’ by the readers/viewers, making him not much more than a popularity contest winner. This shallow character make-up always annoys me a bit. We deserve a better class of hero! :p
     
    #19 Alex_G, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    This thread reminds me of a pre-employment personality quiz I took years ago, one of the first ones I ever took, if not the first. And it asked "I root for the bad guys to win in movies." At the time I didn't realize that people would be shallow enough to think the way you answer such questions has any bearing on how good of an employee you'll be, but the first thing I thought of was Darth Vader, and of course I root for him.
     
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