Right,
We have had the discussion on "messengers of god" before, you didnt show me any evidence of their validity then and i am guessing that you can't now.
You have your belief.
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Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Cooky
- Start date
Right,
We have had the discussion on "messengers of god" before, you didnt show me any evidence of their validity then and i am guessing that you can't now.
You have your belief.
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
I am a firm believer in Dog.
Gargovic Malkav
Well-Known Member
And you call yourself a radical felinist?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know what you mean by validity, but yes, we have covered the evidence before....
I hope you and your family are doing okay, I keep hearing the news about a pretty serious second wave of Covid in your country, similar to what we are seeing in the U.S.
Apparently i cannot argue the meanings of evidence so it will end here.
Yes it's pretty bad in parts of france, luckily not so bad where we are. The worst areas have severe restrictions imposed including curfews in an attempt to control rhe spread. In the least effected areas masks, social distancing and hand cleansing are a must as well as limits on the size of gatherings, bars and restaurants are still open but must meet rhe guidelines
Stay safe and well
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
How do so many messengers get to see it then?And you will never see God, because He never shows up in person, since God is not a person.
God is Spirit, and we cannot see Spirit.
Because if a spirit can't reveal itself, then the messengers are dreaming or imagining or conning us,
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
Please present your evidence.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Messengers do not get to see God. They just hear His voice speak through the Holy Spirit. The Messengers know God, but how they know is not something we can understand.
"We will have experience of God's spirit through His Prophets in the next world, but God is too great for us to know without this Intermediary. The Prophets know God, but how is more than our human minds can grasp. We believe we may attain in the next world to seeing the Prophets. There is certainly a future life. Heaven and hell are conditions within our own beings."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, November 14, 1947)
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
It could speak through the Holy Spirit then. It must be able to contact and communicate with humans to tell messengers what to do!!!
If it can't that means all the messengers are dreamers, imagineers, false prophets, conmen, fakes, etc.
We know Bahaullah was asleep when he got the wake up call.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Are the messengers human?
If they are, what about their connection with god in the 1800s that stronger than those who say they experience and hear god "as well" in the 21st century?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I believe we all have a spark of life in all that lives; but, I don't believe it is defined as a deity and I don't believe it is a creator.
So, if that is called god, so be.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
There isn't a creator. Is god human existence? Can you rephrase?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, God cannot communicate to ordinary humans directly such that they could ever understand that communication and tell the Messengers what to do.
He was not literally sleeping, He was just caught by surprise.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believe the Messengers are human, but they have a twofold nature, a human nature and a spiritual nature. As such they have a divine mind that enables them to receive and understand communication from God.
I do not believe that anyone except the Messengers can hear God because nobody else has a divine mind.
I believe that Baha'u'llah was the last Messenger that has been sent by God, so I do not believe that anyone in the 21st century has heard from God.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Why the 1800s and not the 21st century?
How does divinity and communication change in such a short period of time that today people feel they can't receive the divine as someone only three hundred or a thousand (or so) before their life times?
Also.
Does divine communication limited by time period?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Because that is when God chose reveal His message, according to the needs of humanity.
I do not understand that question. Can you explain what you mean?
It is only limited to when God chooses to reveal a message.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Oh. A lot of times the further back in time a spiritual event happened, the more valid it becomes. I think it's because no one can prove otherwise. The time-gap validates the argument that, for example, jesus actually rose to heavens (assuming this is literal); and, it's true because no one can prove otherwise.
1800s isn't "that" long ago. So, I consider it just like today. There is no thousand or even 10,000 year gap. So what we experience back then should be the same experience we are capable of experiencing today. We are all human. Jesus christ. Bahaullah. You and I. Time makes no difference in humanity.
Since time does not matter in divinity (right?) and we are all human with similar means to experience what our peers did regardless the time period, I would assume that we can experience hearing god just as someone hundreds of years ago, thousands, ten thousand.
How is this ability to hear and communicate with god available not so long ago but not today? (I know it's god's "choice" but the capability should still exist regardless if he chooses to communicate with "us" or not)
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
If there is, I wish he or she would make sure everyone is on the same page.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
A female dog.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God has attempted to do that but not everyone responded to His call because not everyone wants to be on the same page.