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Do Atheists get into heaven?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Mr Spinkles, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Caleb_Son of Light

    Caleb_Son of Light New Member

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    The answer according to the christian belief is no. The reason is because you have your whole to believe in God for you are being put through the test of life. Plus once you die you don't see God. You won't see God until judgement day. You simply go to a place where you will wait.
     
  2. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the muslims would agree with that.
     
  3. Gunnard

    Gunnard Member

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    lets add little bit to this

    If a man is walking down the street or is hanging out with friends and learns a little about the bible or a little about God then accidently stumbles out into traffic and gets squished by a peter bilt, is he still accountible for his soul?

    so is there mercy shown to that poor bloke that had a quick glance
    to the "golden path" but never gets a chance to be saved?

    or what if a persons being saved right now

    "Lord Jesus I take you into my hear....... " and that very moment
    the person gets his head blowed off by a stray bullet

    as you can see by these examples the world and also the human mind is not black and white like " that person saw but ignored so he goes to hell" along with "that african heathen never got the chance"

    where do draw the line huh?
     
  4. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Father God knows all, sees all, knows your thoughts, and what is in your heart. Father God is perfectly truthful, perfectly loving as well as perfectly just. In my opinion there is no one on the planet who is not given a way by Father God to get to Heaven. As has been stated before, anyone who rejects God in this life is condemned to serve the one he or she served on earth. That one being satan. I can assure all of you that should Father God not be perfectly just then the very loud southern drawl giving Him a great big hassle on judgement will belong to me. Jesus said it in the Word, I have tried to live by that Word for 30 years and it had better be right because Father God is powerful enough to keep it that way. If not He will hear from me. That is my right as His child.
     
  5. Thrasymachus

    Thrasymachus Member

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    You're really wasting your time, and more preciously your mind, by believing in such un-realistic notions that cannot be substantiated with any amount of evidence or fact. What can you honesty obtain from such empty pursuits? Think sternly, think honestly. Think of all that you could lose and think of all that you could gain-- I'm not speaking of moral freedom! Do yourselves a favor, please, and try to think and act semi-authentically, not the way they taught you to behave and not what they taught you to think, but rather re-develop some sense of individuality within yourselves. Be a leader, be original, be happy with yourselves. Don't make superstitious and religious idols the sourse of your happiness; let happiness come from within yourselves. You all are the source of purity, who else but you?

    Aim to achieve, and not to be decieved.
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

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    But martha, what about the parable of the prodigal son? Jesus relates the father in the parable to God....is the father in the parable truly being just, or loving?
     
  7. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Mr. Sprinkles, I am so glad you brought that up. The prodigal son is a perfect example of both love and justice. Did the father hire a private dective to go and find his son or did he just wait for him to come back? That would not have been just. You see Father God also created satan and satan was given the right to gather from earth all those who reject Father and take them to serve him. Father must also be just to satan. The young man might have chosen to remain in his sin and so he would have belonged to satan. But notice, the father waited and looked for his son because he loved him. And ofcourse, he took him back when the son really asked in an humble manner. As for justice for the older son, well we can all see the jealousy in his heart and so could his father. Love is always rewarded. My Father loves us in the same manner. Jesus is the price Father paid to satan for the souls of all who truly love HIM.
     
  8. Mr Spinkles

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    The only reason the prodigal son returned was because he ran out of money with which to get women and party and have a jolly sinful time. He returned to his father because he was starving, not because he realized the error of his ways. The prodigal son was not punished in any way by his father, and the older son was never rewarded for his loyalty (the father never threw a feast for him and his friends).

    So, when the atheist 'goes bankrupt' (faces the judgement of God in the afterlife and realizes there was a God all along) and asks for forgiveness, according to this parable and other Christian teachings, won't God put rings on their fingers, and have a celebration in heaven?
     
  9. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Mr. Sprinkles, Sounds to me like you are arguing with Jesus. He is the one who told the story and Jesus is the one who led us to know the meaning. I am only the messenger. As for a realization at the time of judgement, remember what Jesus told those who asked for signs to prove His Kingship. He told them that there had been many signs and many people had told them the truth but they had refused to listen so all they were gonna get from Father God now was the final sacrafice and then they were own their own. Atheist can hear the truth just like the Hebrew children. Rejecting Jesus in their heart is what condemns them. Not Father God.
    Remember that satan was also given a principality and he will be given a kingdom. One of darkness and misery. We all choose in this life whom we will serve in the next. Father God does not lie nor does He forget a promise,even to satan.
     
  10. Mr Spinkles

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    And why would God make that promise to Satan in the first place?
     
  11. Tom Davidson

    Tom Davidson Member

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    Apologies to all -

    Previously I said Allah was a Prophet, not God - quite how I managed this I don't know, must be the heat - Allah is, of course, God to Islam.

    Thomas
     
  12. Tom Davidson

    Tom Davidson Member

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    Mr Sprinkles -

    Your interpretation of the Prodigal Son is yours and yours only - no-one else supports such a view, and the text suggests otherwise. It is one thing to question, another to be contrary for the sake of argument. You will never appreciate the richness of anything if you insist on making assumptions that bolster your own choice in how you choose to view things.

    The Parable of the Prodigal Son is the story of humanity told in utter simplicity and marvellous economy. To suggest spurious reasons why this and that is pointless - I might as well say he came home because he forgot his favourite socks - better to suspend one's own limitations and try and see what the text is getting at.

    The son only returned when he realised he was wrong, and his father was right.

    And the father, because he loved him, was obliged to wait until the son realised this lesson.

    My teenage daughters go out - do I follow them? No - I trust them, and sometimes they make mistakes, but whatever mistakes they make, I will be there for them, but I cannot, and I will not, live their lives for them.

    And God will not live our lives for us.

    This world is not perfect, and this world is subject to chance. Sometime today a child will get hit and killed by a car. In fact quite a few will. In fact globally hundreds will. Is that God's will? I think not. Was it then the parents' will? No, I don't think so. Who's fault was it then? In many cases, no-ones, it was just a tragic accident. My own daughter got knocked down three years ago (luckily, she survived).

    People look for guarantees, their conversations start "Yes, but... "

    There are no guarantees, no failsafes, no options. This is the way of the world, and the Way of God - all gods - and all gods have been quite to the point on this issue since time began.

    Thomas
     
  13. quick

    quick Member

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    [/quote]But martha, what about the parable of the prodigal son? Jesus relates the father in the parable to God....is the father in the parable truly being just, or loving?[/quote]

    This is easy--Perfectly loving and just.

    The Father in the parable, God, is free to accept the prodigal son back, and free to accept us, as sinful men and women, because Jesus has paid the debt for all sin. Jesus suffered the sins of the world so justice would be served, so now God is free to love those who accept Christ, as he has paid our debts. If you do not accept Christ, you still will suffer judgment, which is no different than if someone offered to pay our bail while we were in jail, but we refused the offer.

    When Jesus told this parable he was continuing, as he did throughout the Gospels, to explain to his disciples what his role would be as savior--something they had a very hard time grasping, and something we continue to struggle with today.
     
  14. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Because, Mr. Sprinkles, Father God created satan also and He loves him just as He loves each one of us. Father God has gone to great lengths to make sure that all of His Creation have the kind of after-life they want.
     
  15. Caleb_Son of Light

    Caleb_Son of Light New Member

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    Mr sparkles, to your question about the man who hears a little about Jesus then take a blow to the head.
    I believe your qyestion was, what will happen? God see and knows what we feel in our hearts he knows how we really feel. If he sees and that someone has seen that light and was in the process of being save there is not a doubt in my mind that God will show mercy on him.

    It is like Martha said, God knows who we chose to serve. Satan or The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
     
  16. Mr Spinkles

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    Here is the first part of the prodigal son parable (Luke 15:11-19):

    A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

    Only AFTER the son has suffered the consequences of his sinful ways does he go back to his father and repent--this is not my opinion, it is what's written. The son does not have the foresight to understand the error of his ways until AFTER he pays the consequences for them. So if an atheist finally pays the consequences for his lack of faith by torment in hell, and asks forgiveness, would the father not accept his child back?

    Tom Davidson-- you, of course, are not all-powerful, as God is. It would be impossible for you, a mere mortal, to prevent your daughters from making harmful decisions without infringing on their freedom and only making the situation worse than it already may be. However, nothing is impossible for God, according to the Christian view....so a loving God could keep us from making bad decisions without infringing on our freedom. Then everyone would be happy. Or is God not all-powerful?

    You referred to your daughters going out, and you not following them. I think a more relevant analogy would be one of your daughters took LSD and is attempting to jump off a bridge....all good parents, no matter how much they respect their child's freedoms, would do everything in their power to prevent this, including physical force. Sometimes it is more loving to restrict freedoms than to be respectful of them.

    quick--but what if, after spending time in jail, you changed your mind? Could you still get the bail? Would the father of the prodigal son have accepted his son back at any time, no matter how long it took? Or was the father's love 'for a limited time only'?

    martha--why would God create Satan the way He did if He knew what Satan would become? Did God will evil into the world? Also--what if an atheist does want an afterlife in heaven, but simply doesn't feel a strong conviction that it is real? Can there be a difference between what we would like to be true, and what we think is true?

    Caleb--I did not ask that question, someone else did.

    Everyone: the name's S p i n k l e s . Not Sparkles or SpRinkles. And that's MISTER Spinkles to you! (haha, just kidding)
     
  17. quick

    quick Member

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    The Bible seems quite clear--any time in this earthly life is sufficient.

    For example, when Christ was on the cross, one of the two thieves crucified with Jesus accepted Christ as his savior shortly before the thief died, and Christ made it quite clear that this was sufficient for his redemption. He stands at the door and knocks....
     
  18. Mr Spinkles

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    And how do you reconcile this with the Christian view of a loving God? If you loved someone, wouldn't you accept them back--no matter how long it took them to realize it?
     
  19. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Mr. Spinkes, Let me first apologize for the incorrect use of your handle. I am truly sorry and meant no disrespect. Then let me thank you for this challenge to my beliefs. It has made me delve in to scripture I had not looked at in many months and you have made it possible for a renewing of my mind in Christ. Bless you.

    Answering the question Can an atheist change his mind after death and realize his mistake and receive forgiveness. The answer with great love and sadness from the Word of Father God is absolutely NO. Father God will only accept a conversion under Faith, not under the sword.
    "Without Faith it is impossible to please God.
    Only those whose name is written in the Book Of Life will be allowed to enter Heaven. All others will be cast into the kingdom of Death and Hell. Revelations 20 vs. 11.15
    How do we get our name in the Book? Jesus said "No man comes to the Father except by Me." John 14 vs 6
    Mr. Spinkles, the following verses are just a small portion of Jesus words which are the only foundation I have for being able to answer you. They are sufficient for me and I would hope for you also
    John 3 10-21 Matthew 5 vs 20 Matthew 6 vs 14-15 Matthew & vs 21-23 Matthew 10 vs 32-33 John 5 24-30 John 6 vs 29-40 John 8 vs 19-59 John 11 vs 17-27 John 12 vs 44-50 John 14 vs 6

    Why could I never be an atheist? Read John 17 vs 1-26 This is the prayer of my Lord and Savior before His death on the cross. He loves us so much Mr. Spinkles.
    Thank you again for helping me to realize it today. I really needed this.
     
  20. Tom Davidson

    Tom Davidson Member

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    "so a loving God could keep us from making bad decisions without infringing on our freedom."

    No he could not - the decision is ours - if God alters or in some way changes the decision, then he is curtailing the essential freedom of being. You cannot be free, and have decisions determined by an outside agency.

    Thomas
     
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