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Do Atheists get into heaven?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Mr Spinkles, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Mr Spinkles

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    An atheist believes that there is no reward in heaven for good deeds on earth. So, if an atheist is good here on earth simply out of the goodness of his/her heart, is the atheist not just as moral as a Christian who is good and expects to be rewarded in the afterlife?

    Why would God punish someone who lives a good, moral life without expectation of reward? I would imagine a just God would allow a righteous atheist into heaven as He would allow all righteous people into heaven. What do Christians believe?
     
  2. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello Mr_Spinkles and God Bless.

    According to the Bible, an atheist cannot go into Heaven unless He recieves Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10). You see, God is definetely just, but He cannot look upon sin, which all are in (Romans 3:23), unless they recieve Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior in their heart. In addition, no matter how many goods one does one will do one will not escape the fact that all have sinned and need a Savior. God's love is shown in the extreme, when He came as Jesus Christ and died on the cross for you and me. However, since we have free will He gives us the choice will we choose to love God or not? God does not seek forced love, but true love, that is why their is free will and their is a hell. Those who do not accept Christ go to hell, because they choose to not accept Christ, no matter how many good things one has done, this is the result. The choice is ours to make.

    God Bless (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  3. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying, is that belief in god, and therefore enterence into heaven, has nothing to do with morality? If Mother Theresa hadn't believed in god, she'd be burning in hell right now?

    Try this analogy: I'm trapped in a cave with 200 people. I have found a way out, but for some reason, only 100 people will be able to get out before the cave collapses. It is up to me to choose who will live and who will die. If I were god, I would only let the people who liked me survive. However, I will use my imperfect reasoning, and allow those who I felt were most deserving get out.

    Why is heaven awarded on kiss-*** rather than merit?
     
  4. Mr Spinkles

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    Why not? I mean, can't God do whatever He wants?

    Think about unicorns. You don't believe in them--but it is not because you secretly know unicorns exist, but want to spite them by denying their existence. In the same way, atheists do not believe in God because the idea does not hold water to them, just as I'm sure the idea of unicorns does not hold water for you.

    So would not a good God admire the moral strength of a good atheist who expects no spiritual rewards? Would not a merciful and just God forgive the moral people who do not think he exists, just as He forgives rapists and murderers who do think He exists?
     
  5. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Jesus Christ is Lord of All but not all see Him as Lord. Why would you want to go to heaven and serve a Master whom you did not believe in? I cannot imagine why either of you would feel at home there?
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

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    And will you feel at home if you get to heaven and it turns out that Jesus was not Lord of All, but there is only one God and Allah is His name, and Mohommad is the last and most important Prophet? I think if it turns out we are wrong, we will take what we can get in the afterlife. :mrgreen:

    The reason I am asking these questions is because I want to understand what people with other views think. It's good to ask questions and see why people believe the things they do. And it's good to answer the questions at hand directly, i.m.o.
     
  7. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    If it turns out that Jesus has lied about Heaven, I will be totally surprized because He has never lied to me before and i certainly can't say that about people. No i will not be wanting to stay if allah or mohammed is in charge. Just like some people who don't believe in Jesus, i don't believe mohammed therefore i could not trust his after-life promises. I don't love allah and just as I won't live here with a man I don't love I won't live in the after-life with someone I don't love. If some of your so called other gods are in charge, I'll probably find me a cloud, crawl inside and cry for eternity.
     
  8. Mr Spinkles

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    If I died and found out there was a heaven, I would be glad to be proven wrong. Would God turn me away, even if I lived a moral, loving life towards my fellow man?
     
  9. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Mr. Sprinkles, We who are Christian, totally understand that the numero uno #1, top of the list commandment, is to love Father God with all our heart. It is my opinion that we are really in another type of womb here on earth. We are really making preparations to be born into our true, new bodies, the spiritual ones. We are going to live with God. It is my opinion, that after much trial, Father God, came to earth in the body of a man, we Christians call Him, Jesus. It is the logical thing for Father God to do since He had dealt with His children thru many years with prophets and they would not listen. Father God, i believe, created everything so He knows everything and He makes the rules. He is also perfectly just. If He told the Hebrew, I am a jealous God, thou shall have no other gods before me and i believe He did, then it would be unjust for Him to let them worship idols and not pay the consequences. That is what we can expect from a totally just Father God when we decide to live our way but ignore or deny Him. we will pay the consequences. Not only is Father God, perfect love, He is also perfect justice.
     
  10. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Being a Universalist, I'd have to say that of course Atheists will go to "Heaven," whatever that is.

    I don't think Jesus lied about Heaven. I think we have very possibly misinterpretated what he meant.
     
  11. harold e. rice

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    Atheist don't believe in heaven
     
  12. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    No they don't get into heaven.
     
  13. Thrasymachus

    Thrasymachus Member

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    What is heaven? How do we know? Can it be verified? Can it be substantiated? Is it probable?
     
  14. Tom Davidson

    Tom Davidson Member

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    The atheist does not go to heaven, because:

    1 - He chooses not to. we are free to choose, to accept God, or deny God, but we are bound by the conseqneces of our choices. What you're essentially asking for is a 'get out' clause - and there isn't one.

    2 - Good works alone are no guarantee of salvation - faith is a pre-requisite. Without faith there is no 'dialogue' on any level between the human and the Divine.

    3 - The choice does not lie with God - it lies with man. God will not make man do what he chooses not to do, nor will God make man go where he chooses not to go.

    In answer to the obvious follow-up question:
    If a man does good, in the belief that a Divine Agency calls him to so do, then salvation is possible. He is a member of the 'unseen church' and heaven shall be his reward. Catholicism teaches 'no sdalvation outside of the church' but there are also plenty of teachings to suggest that 'church' implies more than the brick building down the road.

    Thomas
     
  15. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Jesus and many other religions tell us the Kingdom of Heaven is within. They show us how to find heaven or the Christ within. Many religions tell us there is only one God. This one God goes by many names, Jehovah, Allah, etc. If you reject Allah you would be rejecting Jesus.
     
  16. Tom Davidson

    Tom Davidson Member

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    Allah is not God, but a Prophet of God.

    I do not reject the teachings of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) nor any sage, nor any saint, but I follow only one, for to me Christ has made God known - to me - in a way that other religious traditions only hint at. The Christian tradition - Catholicism in particular -speaks to me in a way no other does. To look to another would be to betray myself.

    I am well aware that there are those, in other traditions, for whom I have the most enormous respect, who feel the same way about their faith as I do mine.

    Luckily for me, they and I see each other as friends, each travelling his own way, towards the same goal.

    Thomas
     
  17. quick

    quick Member

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    No. Not unless they repent and accept Christ as their savior.

    The Bible quite clearly teaches that we are saved by grace, not by works, lest any man should boast (See Ephesians 2:8-9 below). You do not merit saving or heaven by being "good", as we are all dead to sin, but rather God chooses you, and you respond to his grace by trying to live according to his precepts. (See James 2, where we learn that if you are saved by grace, then you will do some good works, as it is intrinsic to grace to respond in love, much like a great basketball player will play some basketball. Here is the passage: James 2: 26--"As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. ")



    Here is a key passage from Ephesians 2:



    "1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
    2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
    3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
    7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (23) the gift of God;
    9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
    10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
    11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called " Uncircumcision" by the so-called " Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands--
    12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
    15 by (46) abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is (47) the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might (48) make the two into (49) one new man, thus establishing (50) peace,
    16 and might (51) reconcile them both in (52) one body to God through the cross, by it having (53) put to death the enmity.
    17 AND (54) HE CAME AND PREACHED (55) PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE (56) FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE (57) NEAR;
    18 for through Him we both have (58) our access in (59) one Spirit to (60) the Father.
    19 So then you are no longer (61) strangers and aliens, but you are (62) fellow citizens with the saints, and are of (63) God's household,
    20 having been (64) built on (65) the foundation of (66) the apostles and prophets, (67) Christ Jesus Himself being the (68) corner stone,
    21 (69) in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into (70) a holy temple in the Lord,
    22 in whom you also are being (71) built together into a (72) dwelling of God in the Spirit. "

    Christianity is the only major religion in which God reached down to man and saved him through a freely given gift of grace; all other religions teach that we must work hard and study hard to get into heaven. However, Christianity does teach in the Bible that a Christian will believe in the saving faith in Christ, and will not be a non-believer. John 3: 36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." However, our very power to see around our sin and accept Christ is a result of God's grace.
     
  18. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Have you considered how confusing it would be if Father God took on so many different names? Since Jesus refers to satan as the author of confusion, don't you think it is possible that he confused many people and caused all these other names to be given to the Creator, causing them to believe falsly. You see, the reason I asked was because Moses was so adamant about getting a name from Almighty God to take to the Hebrews in Egypt. And Father God was so definite with Abraham about who He was.
     
  19. Caleb_Son of Light

    Caleb_Son of Light New Member

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    Thomas are right to say that the church is not a brick building up the road. It says in the the bible that a church is a group of people who gather to worship God has a whole. We also learn though that a church must appoint Elders and Deacons to controll these people who come together to meet as a church.

    To all the atheist or questioners of faith
    I would like to state first that no christian or lover of God hates you because you do not believe. We understand that satan blocks the hearts, mind, body and soul of some people. It is just a christians job to let their light shine through.
    The question at hand is do atheist get into heaven?
    Depends, according to the Bible if some one is never to come to know God he will be shown mercy and have a place in heaven but if someone does come to know God and rebukes him and ignores his word then he will be condemned to damnation. What this means is, If a tribe in africa who worships the God of the sun and a missionary never reaches this tribe before the judgement day then the tribe will be shown mercy. If a man is walking down the street or is hanging out with friends and learns a little about the bible or a little about God he is now accountible for his soul. If that man seeks out more about God and is baptise and continues to let his light shine. Then he will truly enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If a man learns of God and doesnt believe him and chooses to ignore him no matter if he is the nicest person in the world he won't enter the kingdom of Heaven.
    The fact of the matter is not even everyone that says he is a Christian or believes in God will enter the kingdom of Heaven. We see that in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? (this would refer to doing what you feel is right Verses what is really right) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!"
    The way into heaven doubters and non-believers is to first believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Second is to repent and be baptise for the remission of sins. And thirds do the things that God says to do and when you stumble simply pray for forgives.
    All you have to do is pick a the holy Bible up(NIV) and start reading the new testament. The answers you seek arent here on this website but in the bible.
    I know this because I once lost my faith for a long time.

    It is not God you seek but it is the faith in God you are looking for.
    Caleb
     
  20. Mr Spinkles

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    I'm not asking for a 'get out' clause, and I can't 'choose' to beleive in God, any more than I can choose to believe that O.J. was innocent. O.J. could threaten to kill me all he wants, and I could say I think he's innocent out of fear, but I still wouldn't believe it. What I see and hear, what I think, and what I read in the Bible guides my conclusions on it....not my 'choice'.

    Ah, but is a perfectly loving God necessarily perfectly just? Did Jesus not speak of a God who, contrary to traditional thought, is not perfectly just but is instead perfectly loving? Think of the parable of the prodigal son....that was awfully loving, yet awfully unjust of the father to accept his son back, wasn't it? That is a very powerful parable, and strikingly relevant.... If an atheist died and finally saw that heaven and God do exist, and repented, wouldn't a loving God, like the father of the prodigal son, accept him/her?
     
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