Do Atheists claiming truthiness on predetermined view?

[ChristineM]

Theism isn't a faith.








That is a lot of deities, unless you are using some specific definition of theism, in which case, you then can't generalize theism to mean just any god idea that you don't like.

So yes, if you want to actually make sense, it covers a lot of ground.

Yet you said a-theism was a faith... how hypocritical.

Yes over 4000 excluding the 30+ million Hindu deities, and its all one single disbelief.

And we've been through all this before and I'm not one for beating my head against a wall. If you don't like the definitions of theism and atheism then have a word with those people to refine and catalogue those definitions, the compiler's of dictionaries rather than vernting useless hot air on a public forum. Tour choice of course like mine is adhering to the actual definitions

 

[Milton Platt]

I am talking about atheists that are more on the logical side of things that are materialistic reductionists and are using (well trying to use) science to debunk theism. Not that "oh i dont believe in God but i believe in supernatural" kind of atheists.

As for: "Why would their view be less valid if it was predetermined than if it was not predetermined?"

Think of this this way, if a Robot is programmed to be (or eventually become) Christian for example how can he claim that Christianity is the right way? I mean he got no choice... If humans got no free will then nothing is true, nothing is wrong and nothing is right, nothing got any real meaning and truth becomes unattainable.

That does not necessarily mean the choice is invalid. It may be a perfectly valid choice.


You dont think Atheists should reject supernatural?

I do....but I do not hold sway over other atheists and my beliefs have no power over them. Some people become atheists for good reasons, some become atheists for bad reasons. Some use no reasoning at all.

I think we are at the point where i tell you to off.

 

[Father Heathen]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

Who said there was no free will or consciousness in atheism? Such an odd, random claim. And why would either require the supernatural?

 

[QuestioningMind]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

Sorry, but a belief in god(s) is NOT required for their to be free will or consciousness.

 

[Willamena]

But wouldn't atheist believe in supernatural make his atheistic position more "shaky"?

No. This, from a famous atheist, Epictetus:

"You might just as well say that the fall of leaves is ill-omened, or for a fresh fig to change into a dried one, and a bunch of grapes into raisins. For all these things changes are from a preceding state into a new and different state; and thus not destruction, but an ordered management and government of things. Travelling abroad is likewise, a small change: and so is death, a greater change, from what presently is--and here I should not say: a change into what is not, but rather: into what presently is not... In which case, then, shall I cease to be?--Yes, you will cease to be what you are, but become something else of which the universe then has need."
(Epictetus, Discourses, III, 24. 91-4)

 

[Willamena]

It's a problem. Can't have vague meaning of atheism, and specific meaning of atheism. Then it is meaningless.

Atheism has specific meaning: no belief in God or gods.

 

[Desert Snake]

Atheism has specific meaning: no belief in God or gods.

Subjective concept.

 

[Robert Vincelette]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

Quantum mechanics proves to us that at the scale of individual electrons changing state in the brain is nor determined like it appears to be in classical Newtonian mechanics. Everything happens by probability and there is no physics that can predetermine exactly what the electrons will do, thus, in the brain there is a measure of free will in the very material/physical. This deprives us of the power to conclude what many people think is a deterministic concludes.

 

[corynski]

So perhaps there is no free will anytime, anywhere. And you're sure consciousness isn't physical? Ah, we know so little....... Isn't every state of mind preceded by a prior state of mind? Call it determinism perhaps, but try to imagine our states of being not being related intimately to the prior state..... would that not just be chaos? We have the illusion of choosing is all...... the illusion of free will.