Do animals have free will?

[despi]

In terms of God and sin NO they don't have free will, or more exactly they don't have the intellect to make that sort of choice.
There is nothing fundamental about an animal that precludes, the some time development, of rational thought.

In terms of the simple choice of daily actions, they have about the same ability to chose as a small child..... But they do make choices.
In that respect they have free will.

I agree, Terry. Living with the many four legged, furry coated people that I do....I witness their ability to love, become angry and happy, have hurt feelings upon being scolded, and just actually a multitude of emotions. And "most" have an unending ability to love, even though some "owners" may not be so nice to them. However, their ability to make choices, and know that there is an eternal consequence to that choice, I can't see that as being a part of "their " make-up.

I do have a wonderful story to tell about a hump back whale. A gentleman came into our store the other day. He related a story to us about his son, who is in the navy, stationed in Alaska, and one of those brave people who do search and rescue. His boat was patrolling the coast, when they spotted a whale entanged in a hugh fishing net. The net was from a large manufacturing ship, whose job is to catch as many fish as they can, processing and canning the meat while the ship is in international waters...therefore, no one can do anything about "what" they catch....ie protected species. This man's son, along with some other shipmates, went into the water and worked several long, hard, difficult hours cutting the whale loose from the net. This net (the rope's width was approx 5" or more) was completely wrapped all around the whale, with only one fin keeping it above the surface. They succeeded getting the whale loose. This whale followed along beside the ship, as they sailed back into port (considerable distance)....it would surface and blow....surface and blow....each time gaining more strength. As they got closer to the coast line, the whale veered away, raising it's tail, coming down hard to create the famous "footprint" in the water...as if saying "good-bye!" There was no doubt in any of these sailor's minds....the whale was displaying it's "thanks" for all the effort they went through to save it's life.....as it would have surely died, had they not rescued it from that net.

I just loved that story. This whale may not have had "free will" to chose between right and wrong...but we do. Perhaps these animals, having the ability to display emotions to our choices, actually are the ones helping us in the long run.

 

[Quiddity]

So haven't we Humans bio-mechanics?
So why do we try and satisfy our self’s with dopamine?...some of us call this love and comes from the brain, yet we have free will to seek more then this like Anandamide...

If I understood what you were saying, I could possibly answer you.

 

[Papersock]

it was satan who tempted eve, satan is a very powerful angel or spirit creature ,and it is no big deal for him to make it look as if it was the serpent speaking, but the thoughts that were coming out of the serpent were the thoughts of that spirit creature that had turned bad , so it was nothing to do with the thoughts of the serpent .

That is generally accepted belief. However, the Bible does not say that the serpent was Satan. It simply says it was a serpent. Just a regular, crafty, talking serpent.

 

[Papersock]

Is there anything stopping human nature in having one spiritual king, too bring all together as one….like in ants and bees….?

Actually, ants and bees do not follow any commands of their "queen." They follow their individual instincts that happen to make them work as a colony and take care of the queen.

 

[Papersock]

I would say that animals are more-or-less sophisticated automatons.

Some might say that so are we

 

[Willamena]

Do animals have free will?

Yes, we do.

 

[Random]

NO.

Rational discernment, amongst other attributes of mind, are required for choice, which animals do not have. Their brains do not conduct it nor does their consciousness contain it.

Animals merely conduct themselves according to psycho-physical prompts, or "instincts" as we call them. Not that some humans don't either, but that's another story...

 

[xexon]

Read what I said about primates. They THINK. x

 

[Random]

Read what I said about primates. They THINK. x

No, they observe the motions of thoughtforms. There is a difference. Animals cannot discern what they themselves are thinking, cannot categorize or self-organize thoughts. An animal "thinking" is really in an alternate state of innner observance where there is only the feeling itself of thought, but no content or in-formative code is realized for the animal from this experience. It is anomalous to it.

 

[Popeyesays]

Read what I said about primates. They THINK. x

I won't disagree. Does that mean they have a sense of curiosity concerning their spiritual nature? If they do, then they have rational souls and they are 'man'. If they don't then 'free will' is irreelvant to them.

How do we know for sure?

We don't.

So extend kindness to primates, they may be your siblings, not your distant cousins.

regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Read what I said about primates. They THINK. x

I won't disagree. Does that mean they have a sense of curiosity concerning their spiritual nature? If they do, then they have rational souls and they are 'man'. If they don't then 'free will' is irreelvant to them.

How do we know for sure?

We don't.

So extend kindness to primates, they may be your siblings, not your distant cousins.

regards,
Scott

 

[xexon]

A lady friend once compared them to little people in fur coats.

For all you book learners out there, spend some time with apes. I don't mean 5 minutes at the zoo either. If you are fortunate to build a relationship with them and allowed into their private world, they will amaze you at how much we are alike. They are highly complex. I've seen them demonstrate every human emotion we have, including compassion, which common people think belongs to humans exclusively.

All lifeforms have a connection to the creator because we all share the same lifeforce. There is no thinking required to "know" God.

Apes and other animals don't have the ability to think about God, but it doesn't mean that God is unknown to them either. Like children, they have a stronger connection to the divine than a rational thinking "full of the world" adult does.

x

 

[Halcyon]

NO.

Rational discernment, amongst other attributes of mind, are required for choice, which animals do not have. Their brains do not conduct it nor does their consciousness contain it.

Animals merely conduct themselves according to psycho-physical prompts, or "instincts" as we call them. Not that some humans don't either, but that's another story...

My dog may or may not come at my call, he may decide that the dead hedgehog smells so good that he would prefer to continue burying his nose in the carcass than obey my command.
It's his decision, either its his will to sniff the dead thing or to obey me, and that will is free for him to determine.

Free will doesn't require a higher cognative capacity.

 

[Sola'lor]

OK so here is another thought. Sorry if it is a little off topic but if animals are intelligent(which we know they are), and as one poster said they can know God. Does that mean that animals can sin? Sorry if i diverged from the topic a bit or maybe it has been discussed before but the thought just came to me.

 

[xexon]

Sin is a purely human concept.

Only humans "think" themselves apart from God.

Animals don't question it.

It never occurs to them.


x

 

[lilithu]

It seems to me that we're talking about at least two different things when we talk about free will.

1. Some people are talking about the ability to choose one thing over another. In that case, I'd say that other animals (we are animals afterall) most certainly do have free will, IF we do. They certainly have the appearance of free will, which is all that we can say for us as well. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never interacted with other animals.

2. Some people are talking about a moral sense - the ability to choose good or evil. Or in a moral/theological sense, the ability to defy or obey God. In that case, I don't know whether animals have free will, but I sure as heck am not so certain that they don't. I'm not sure that in the context of morality the question of free will for other animals even makes sense. What would it mean for a cat to defy God? But I'm also not sure that it doesn't. I will not presume that we are so special/unique.

Lastly, the question in the OP seems to assume that everyone agrees that we humans have free will. I'm not certain that we do. There have been studies that show that our conscious awareness of a decision happens AFTER our brains have already computed the outcome - neurons firing, synapses summating... input, output. We may perceive a choice but it may be an illusion. I don't know.

I only know that I need to believe that we do have free will, and are thus responsible. Otherwise, I see no point in all of this. And if I believe in my own free will based on nothing more than faith, I see no reason not to extend that to other animals as well.

 

[Booko]

In another forum, someone said that animals do not have free will, and this is one of the key differences between people and animals.How do you determine that animals do not have free will? Is it because they are not as smart as us?

My cats not only have free will -- they have us well trained to schedule our lives and arrange our decor to take their wants into account.

So who's smarter -- us or our cats?

Hmmm

 

[Katzpur]

If by "free will," we really just mean "Can animals choose to do something or not to do it?" the answer would obviously be "yes." It's not even debatable in that context.

 

[Aqualung]

If free-will is defined as the choice to act a certain way, yes animals have free will. If they didn't we wouldn't be able to train animals for the roadshow circus.

What about instinctual pack nature? Does the instinct to do whatever the pack leader says counter the notion of free will in animals?

 

[Aqualung]

No, animals do not have free will. Free will requires a knowledge of good and evil. It requires choice based on an understanding of what God wants and a conscious decision concerning whether to obey or disobey.

But then did Adam and Even not have free will when they ate of the forbidden fruit? Why would God have let them choose if they didn't actually have the ability to choose? If they didn't have free will He may as well have cut to the chase and just spoon fed it to them.