• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Divine Revelation in Hindu Religions versus Abrahamic Religions

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Part one: according to Islamic traditions 124000 prophets.
When you say in Hinduism everyone gets knowledge, that is exactly what Abrahamic faiths teach. You already told me, they get different levels of knowledge as some are more listeners to God than others. So, you are describing an spectrum. On highr side of spectrum, there are those who get the highest level of knowledge, and on lower side, there are those who get the lowest level of knowledge. In Abrahamic faiths those at the highest level of spectrum are called prophets, the friends of God, and those who are inspired.
Part two this thread is in debate section, so, obviously we are debating on the subject. So, far I don't see really any difference with regards to the subject of prophets. Hindus just do not use the term prophet, but conceptually same.
And as you already pointed out, in Hinduism, Avatars are God, which is similar to concept of manifestation of God in Abrahamic faiths. You know, the mainstream Christians believe Jesus is incarnation of God. Of course not all Abrahamic followers believe God incarnnates or Manifests, but so is with Hindus. Not all believe in avatars. The point is, for most belief in Abrahamic beliefs, you can find a similar belief in one of the sects of Hinduism, if not all.
Not looking for argument, just investigating truth.

I gave you the Hindu belief and explained how and why its very very different from the Abrahamic paradigm. Of course you don't see the differences. I didn't expect you would. You already came to the 'discussion' with that POV firmly in mind. It's a guise to propitiate your belief system. You're not investigating truth at all. You're just asking questions so you can then state the Baha'i belief about it. You have no intention of listening or learning.

Of course you can find similarities. The scriptures are vast. They all have a page one. That's a huge similarity right there. As you know, the only reason I come to these forums is because of my hatred of Baha'i's and my anti-Baha'i agenda. (Or so that's what I've been told.) I've seen this movie too many times. Until you give some quote that isn't from a Baha'i source, proving you truly wish to look at and then listen to other POVs, I will be out. I do realise that it would go against your own religion's rules to read a non-Baha'i source, but hey, maybe the cow will jump over the moon too.
 
Last edited:

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree.

Just as followers of Hindu Religions have different views from each other, so is with the adherents of Abrahamics. Some Abrahamic believers also see the divine Law is constant and eternal. The Jews do not believe God changes Laws.
It’s dharmic, not Hindu.
Christians seem to think God’s word is unchanging. Despite coming from the New Testament as a whole. Meh.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
if you guys really wanna convert people , try these guys . but make sure you wear appropriate attire so u blend in or they might poke an arrow in the wrong place.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
When I was in Madurai, I went for a walk down a back alley near our hotel. I came upon a small Murugan temple. Right beside it was a Muslim meat shop, displaying dead carcasses of calves right close to the entrance of the Hindu temple. I spoke to the temple owner who was discouraged by the obvious but legal and nasty attempt to harass. That's the kind of thing we face.
yes they re buying shops on purpose next to jain temples as well and doing the same stuff , the problem is dominant people will exert dominance and the meek will surrender , this will never end unless the entire world actually caves in to islam and then another fight over which sect will dominate .. in the end they will probably be satisfied (hopefully) , once the bloodlust has run its coarse and the landlust is settled. however the book that made them do this will become meaningless as it only talks about "unbelievers" in 70% of its text..so when there are none left the book is void. and books like Geeta and GGS will still be valid coz they only focus on individual development.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
yes they re buying shops on purpose next to jain temples as well and doing the same stuff , the problem is dominant people will exert dominance and the meek will surrender , this will never end unless the entire world actually caves in to islam and then another fight over which sect will dominate .. in the end they will probably be satisfied (hopefully) , once the bloodlust has run its coarse and the landlust is settled. however the book that made them do this will become meaningless as it only talks about "unbelievers" in 70% of its text..so when there are none left the book is void. and books like Geeta and GGS will still be valid coz they only focus on individual development.

I got met with more than a few hateful stares from both Muslims and Christians in South India. Loved my Hindu brothers and sisters though. So open, so friendly. But we can't meet hate with hate. Still, the government could pass some neighbour harassment laws, of disallow purchasing law 100 m or so around existing temples. Same thing happens around Tirupati. It's another method. So we face it on many levels.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
I got met with more than a few hateful stares from both Muslims and Christians in South India. Loved my Hindu brothers and sisters though. So open, so friendly. But we can't meet hate with hate. Still, the government could pass some neighbour harassment laws, of disallow purchasing law 100 m or so around existing temples. Same thing happens around Tirupati. It's another method. So we face it on many levels.
can't cover all bases if the world really wants to consume itself nothing can stop it.. too many fronts . the real enemy is degrading values of indians themselves , these confrontations don't happen from normal folk , its driven by corrupt ones who sell out. so can't really stop the inevitable unless there is a mass transformation within. Satguru jaggi vasudev is probably putting some sense into restless minds .

the other pro active thing to do is to spread sikhism , if you look deep into sikhism its a comprehensive core of all hindu text and it does work . sikhism only spread out in north not much in south. its a 100% counter to islam coz its monotheistic and the timing and history that surrounds it is Nothing less than a divine intervention . i truly believe that guru nanak was the "KALKI AVTAAR" . and there is no need to look beyond.
sikhs are the answer to oppressors as proven by history. more people should volunteer and helps sikhs in translation of text and spreading the faith.
 
Last edited:

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
can't cover all bases if the world really wants to consume itself nothing can stop it.. too many fronts . the real enemy is degrading values of indians themselves , these confrontations don't happen from normal folk , its driven by corrupt ones who sell out. so can't really stop the inevitable unless there is a mass transformation within. Satguru jaggi vasudev is probably putting some sense into restless minds .

the other pro active thing to do is to spread sikhism , if you look deep into sikhism its a comprehensive core of all hindu text and it does work . sikhism only spread out in north not much in south. its a 100% counter to islam coz its monotheistic and the timing and history that surrounds it is Nothing less than a divine intervention . i truly believe that guru nanak was the "KALKI AVTAAR" . and there is no need to look beyond.
sikhs are the answer to oppressors as proven by history. more people should volunteer and helps sikhs in translation of text and spreading the faith.
I like Sikhs. They know how to stand up for themselves better than Hindus. My sampradaya publishes Hinduism Today, which is very pro Hindu spreading the word in a positive way, and also countering much of the anti-Hindu stuff. I wish Jaggi woud start calling himself a Hindu. The shame to call yourself a Hindu runs deep. So many years of shaming by foreigners.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
I like Sikhs. They know how to stand up for themselves better than Hindus. My sampradaya publishes Hinduism Today, which is very pro Hindu spreading the word in a positive way, and also countering much of the anti-Hindu stuff. I wish Jaggi woud start calling himself a Hindu. The shame to call yourself a Hindu runs deep. So many years of shaming by foreigners.

you really need to diligently learn about sikhism bro .. you will be shocked to the extent of the sacrifices. CAN YOU IMAGINE giving up your child for protecting people? so much they did which no one cares about ..its so sad tbh.

the history is all legit and authentic its only 500 years old... all documents are intact ...check this out


HIGHLIGHT - Guru gobind singh ji's 2 sons were killed by aurangzeb because they refused to convert to islam. and yet they built them mosques. dude when and where will this end bothers me a lot... people have forgotten history and moved on ..none of the new gen's even realize whats happening behind the curtain and how easily they will lose their freedom yet again.

they are happy making surdar jokes and what not , imagine someone lost his sons for your freedom and all you have to offer is insults?
 
Last edited:

RoaringSilence

Active Member
You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one. You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light. By this Illumination, that Light is radiant within all.

from ggs
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
Thanks for all your point of views. My question is more related to how God communicates to mankind.
So, in your view, in your religion of Himduism, does God communicate with human beings in a clear way? By clear way, I mean. Specifically tells them, I am God. If yes, does He do that only to some people or to all people, and equally? If No, why not?

jisahi jagaa-ay pee-aavai ih ras akath kathaa tin jaanee. ||2||
Only those who are awakened by the Lord to drink in this Sublime Essence, come to know the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. ||2||

(13-17, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
jaa ka-o aa-ay so-ee bihaajhahu har gur tay maneh basayraa.
Purchase only that for which you have come into the world, and through the Guru, the Lord shall dwell within your mind.

(13-18, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
nij ghar mahal paavhu sukh sehjay bahur na ho-igo fayraa. ||3||
Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||

GGS
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In Abrahamic Religions, it is believed that there are Messengers of God who have come with new covenant each time and each brought a set of teachings or commandments from divinity. Example of these Messengers are Noah, Abraham and Moses.
There are also other prophets such as the Jewish Prophets (Daniel, Ezekiel), who did not bring commandments, but according Bible, the saw visions and dreams, and prophesied about future events.

Now, regardless of the usage of the Terms 'prophet', and 'Messenger', how different is the idea of inspiration in Hinduism.
Essentially both Religions claim that a God or gods communicated to humanity.
Hindus believe all human beings and other creatures that exist are also fully God, though they have not realised it yet. That is key difference between Hinduism and Abrahamic religions. Everything else follows from there. One needs a messenger to communicate between two seperate entities. In Hinduism there are no seperate entities, the perception of separation stems from imperfect cognition. So there can be no messanger.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
The examples on core theology are contradictory.

How so? Love God with all your heart and soul. Give charity to those less fortunate. Love your neighbor. Eat healthy and avoid indulging (and over indulging) in intoxicants of any kind that can harm the body and mind. Love your spouse (according to Islam half of one's religion is marriage). Understand that all people exist as humankind and therefore treat others with respect even in times of war.

Can you show which of the above Hinduism finds no compatibility in?

In Abrahamism there is always this need for a prophet, one guy (so far has always been male) that is the central figure, knows more than anyone else, is almost God, or God's son.

Like any religious faith or tradition isn't there always a need for a teacher? Aren't metaphysical deities always the ones teaching corporeal beings like humans things about the known and unknown? Teachers know more than students. Wise men know more than the community. There are always people that know more than the next. I'm not sure how this is so different than what Hinduism promotes in its faith.

Certainly, there is no chosen people. All people are the same, essentially, extensions of God.

Same in Islam. In fact, individualism of this kind is based on piety and how much you do for the human community.

In Abrahamism, there has to be laws. Irreffutable ones, called God's law. In Hinduism, God just is. It's men who make laws.

All major faiths have tenants and some even have legal systems that govern the communal body. Perhaps not in the canonical sense, Hindus like Jews, Christians and Muslims have laws concerning how one conducts themselves as a member of the community. I believe Dharma, provides the legal foundation to which all others follow in Hinduism contains moral ideals in relation to the eternal order of the universe. I believe the concept can find some parallel with Abrahamic faith. The difference between Hinduism and Christianity and Islam in this context is there is no concept of varṇāśramadharma. I'm sure some elements of the legal literature found in Hinduism found in the subcategory of smitri, of Dharmaśāstra could have some have some comparable elements between that and elements found in the Hadith and Talmud.

By the way God's laws are not limited scripture, we can also find that God's laws are also a part of the laws of the universe as well.

Sin ... in Abrahamism, man is essentially a sinner. In Sanatana Dharma, man is essentially divine.

Of course man is divine we can see the patriarchal elements within Hinduism just like that of the Abrahamic faiths...oh wait you referring to man as in mankind? that begs to differ considering that Hindus still have this primitive system a part of their society called the caste system. The "untouchables" and how they are treated, doesn't seem divine to me. Like Abrahamism as you call it, contains similar elements in the middle eastern cultures as well as we see African Jews being mistreated similar to those untouchables in India.

Looks like Abrahamism and Hinduism is 5/5 in my book....

Sin ... in Abrahamism, man is essentially a sinner.

This is the Christian theology of original sin, there is no such concept in Judaism and Islam.....

There is no concept equivalent to karma in Abrahamic faiths. Suffering is explained by 'God does what God wants to do.

Wrong. Suffering is multifaceted and there are elements of variety that can explain why humans suffering exists. Suffering is explained by human action (and inaction) and the ability to make choices to either be obedient to a moral code or not. To transgress a moral code and not live by a common ideal of "righteousness" and "goodness" leads to suffering due to the selfishness of some of mankind's actions.

Much of Abrahamism is dualistic, much of Sanatana dharma is monistic.

There is dualism in Samkhya and Yoga schools of Hindu philosophy....

Homosexuality ... it's abhorrent in much of Abrahamism, just accepted as withingthe diversity of life in Hinduiam.

Yet homosexuality is just now starting to become accept in much of Hindu India. Homosexuality is just as taboo in the Indian-Hindu culture as it is in the Abrahamic one. I wish you would be more honest about your comparisons.

Going around looking for similarities as a focal point is pointless, in my view. It's much easier just to respect people for who they are ... human beings worthy of it.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Surah 49:13

Looks like 6/6....

Nobody is saying these faiths absolutely have to have the same belief structures but I think the fundamental elements many religions have in common is progressing human communities for self-improvement.

 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Yes indeed. I was just waiting for it. The #10 in my post 3 was the prediction of when Baha'i would be brought into the debate. But you beat them to it this time, lol. But there will be more I'm sure. I eagerly await. (sarcasm)

Very different paradigms. I beseech the presence of God every single day. Most of the Asian religions like Shinto do too. But ritualistic Hinduism, Shinto, Taoism, native faiths aren't part of the Big Nine legitimate religions in Baha'i faith. So it matters not. It's the nature of those religions. In some areas of India, where the Christians and Muslims have had great influence, that has changed some, sadly enough.
It's kind of weird how religions are called "Abrahamic". Abraham was a character in Genesis... and for only a few pages in Genesis. Same with Adam and Noah. How did they become "manifestations"? Christians don't see them that way. But then Christians don't have or don't need to have "manifestations."

So even if all Baha'is did was take Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and themselves, even with that, it's a stretch to say they are all "one". And like you say, what's so wrong with the diversity of beliefs? The religions that came out of India are so different... and in a good and refreshing way.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
How so? Love God with all your heart and soul. Give charity to those less fortunate. Love your neighbor. Eat healthy and avoid indulging (and over indulging) in intoxicants of any kind that can harm the body and mind. Love your spouse (according to Islam half of one's religion is marriage). Understand that all people exist as humankind and therefore treat others with respect even in times of war.

Can you show which of the above Hinduism finds no compatibility in?

why would you exclude the verses that teach how to use deception as a tool to fight unbelievers ( al taqiah ) , or the verses that teach how to marry your adopted son's wife or a minor even if you are 53 . over indulging in lust is acceptable?
charity , loving god and all might have been easy picks since Christianity was popular. how can you talk of humankind as respect worthy when u have verses on how to use slaves or how you are allowed to claim women of the slaves as your own.

Umm Qirfa was a highly honoured[1] and old Arab leader of the pagan tribe of Banu Fazara in Wadi Al-Qura. She was the wife of Malik ibn Hudhayfa ibn Badr al-Fazari.[2] She was killed by Zayd ibn Haritha on the orders of Muhammadby putting a rope into her two legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two.( HELLOOOOO MANKIND AT TIME OF WAR!! SHE WASNT EVEN WARRING JUST COZ SHE IS A FEMALE LEADER IS ALL IT TOOK...”.[3][4] Her decapitated head was later paraded all over the streets of Medina.[5]

Ibn Ishaq, the "first biographer" of Muhammad writes that:

Allah’s Messenger sent Zayd to Wadi Qura, where he encountered the Banu Fazarah. Some of his Companions were killed, and Zayd was carried away wounded. Ward was slain by the Banu Badr. When Zayd returned, he vowed that no washing should touch his head until he had raided the Fazarah. After he recovered, Muhammad sent him with an army against the Fazarah settlement. He met them in Qura and inflicted casualties on them and took Umm Qirfah prisoner. He also took one of Umm’s daughters and Abdallah bin Mas’adah prisoner. Ziyad bin Harithah ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfah, and he killed her cruelly. He tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels, and they split her in two.

— Tabari Vol 8: page 96

i really could list 1000 more such differences .that you conveniently ignore .just not motivated yet.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
why would you exclude the verses that teach how to use deception as a tool to fight unbelievers ( al taqiah ) , or the verses that teach how to marry your adopted son's wife or a minor even if you are 53 . over indulging in lust is acceptable?

I was merely drawing the parallel of the elements that exist within Hinduism that is comparable to elements within the Abrahamic faiths.

But more importantly if we (by we I'm referring to Hindus) in this conversation are going to attempt to bash the Abrahamic traditions I suggest treading carefully at the history and the current trends in the continent of India and how tolerant religiously observant Hindus are there.
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
I was merely drawing the parallel of the elements that exist within Hinduism that is comparable to elements within the Abrahamic faiths.
no seriously , you don't really need religion for those simple morals , even an atheist is probably more contributing and morally enlightened just coz of family and upbringing is naturally humane. you don't need to impose laws on foreign lands or murder infidels who probably had families that had the same morals without a prophet, just coz they love stone sculptures they don't need to die for it.

sorry if i was rude , i lack a sense of control at times , please dont take it personally.
 
Last edited:

RoaringSilence

Active Member
I was merely drawing the parallel of the elements that exist within Hinduism that is comparable to elements within the Abrahamic faiths.

But more importantly if we (by we I'm referring to Hindus) in this conversation are going to attempt to bash the Abrahamic traditions I suggest treading carefully at the history and the current trends in the continent of India and how tolerant religiously observant Hindus are there.

it doesn't bother me if you want to find faults in indians , it will be a life well spent if it so pleases you.
the tolerance threshold has been tested to the brim , you will find news about 1 muslim being targeted but you will never find news of hindu slaughters .
yes we are not tolerant so be careful if you intend to invade or convert. we are bad people and intolerant since millennia ... that's why we invaded your countries to make slaves and break your mosques and churches.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
How so? Love God with all your heart and soul. Give charity to those less fortunate. Love your neighbor. Eat healthy and avoid indulging (and over indulging) in intoxicants of any kind that can harm the body and mind. Love your spouse (according to Islam half of one's religion is marriage). Understand that all people exist as humankind and therefore treat others with respect even in times of war.

Can you show which of the above Hinduism finds no compatibility in?



Like any religious faith or tradition isn't there always a need for a teacher? Aren't metaphysical deities always the ones teaching corporeal beings like humans things about the known and unknown? Teachers know more than students. Wise men know more than the community. There are always people that know more than the next. I'm not sure how this is so different than what Hinduism promotes in its faith.



Same in Islam. In fact, individualism of this kind is based on piety and how much you do for the human community.



All major faiths have tenants and some even have legal systems that govern the communal body. Perhaps not in the canonical sense, Hindus like Jews, Christians and Muslims have laws concerning how one conducts themselves as a member of the community. I believe Dharma, provides the legal foundation to which all others follow in Hinduism contains moral ideals in relation to the eternal order of the universe. I believe the concept can find some parallel with Abrahamic faith. The difference between Hinduism and Christianity and Islam in this context is there is no concept of varṇāśramadharma. I'm sure some elements of the legal literature found in Hinduism found in the subcategory of smitri, of Dharmaśāstra could have some have some comparable elements between that and elements found in the Hadith and Talmud.

By the way God's laws are not limited scripture, we can also find that God's laws are also a part of the laws of the universe as well.



Of course man is divine we can see the patriarchal elements within Hinduism just like that of the Abrahamic faiths...oh wait you referring to man as in mankind? that begs to differ considering that Hindus still have this primitive system a part of their society called the caste system. The "untouchables" and how they are treated, doesn't seem divine to me. Like Abrahamism as you call it, contains similar elements in the middle eastern cultures as well as we see African Jews being mistreated similar to those untouchables in India.

Looks like Abrahamism and Hinduism is 5/5 in my book....



This is the Christian theology of original sin, there is no such concept in Judaism and Islam.....



Wrong. Suffering is multifaceted and there are elements of variety that can explain why humans suffering exists. Suffering is explained by human action (and inaction) and the ability to make choices to either be obedient to a moral code or not. To transgress a moral code and not live by a common ideal of "righteousness" and "goodness" leads to suffering due to the selfishness of some of mankind's actions.



There is dualism in Samkhya and Yoga schools of Hindu philosophy....



Yet homosexuality is just now starting to become accept in much of Hindu India. Homosexuality is just as taboo in the Indian-Hindu culture as it is in the Abrahamic one. I wish you would be more honest about your comparisons.



"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Surah 49:13

Looks like 6/6....

Nobody is saying these faiths absolutely have to have the same belief structures but I think the fundamental elements many religions have in common is progressing human communities for self-improvement.

I'm trying not to go into debates on RF just glide through. Just wanted to clarify. They are talking about theological differences not the results of charity both faiths promote. Not all religions need a teacher; that is completely biased. There is another site me, @Vinayaka and other Bahais were discussing this for a good year. From what I gather, culture and laws vary in Hinduism in relationship to practice and theology. The experience not the laws of god are totally different than the type of relationship (therefore different beliefs) of both religions. God's laws are limited to scripture.

Scripture has god's laws. Believers follow scripture because of god's laws. From god's laws, they do good things. Everything they do and experience is from god and his doctrine. Nothing wrong with that. Hinduism, it's about one's self only. According to what I learned, it is not a scripture-focused faith. It's a self-focused. Original sin means one is born to sin. Therefore, when we are born, we are already likely to go against god. That's why christians need christ. I'm not familar with Islam. Not all Indian cultures approve homosexuality (from what I gather) because of culture not theology.

To put it in perspective and this is the core of the OP.

This is like finding similarities in black and white people's experiences.

1. Both have history and culture
2. Both have some interaction with each other than built the history
3. Both have their good and bad sides
4. Both sides are human beings

But they are different because of their theology and thereby their experiences and meaning behind their theology and experiences. These things above have nothing to do with the core and spirit of what both sides represent. Either side having their own views is not negative (case in point). I think Hindus just wish people can see that the focus is on the spirit of each beliefs differences in their own right not trying to find what black and whites have in common as above.

Kinda understand?
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
it doesn't bother me if you want to find faults in indians , it will be a life well spent if it so pleases you.

I find no pleasure in pointing out the hypocrisy among the Hindu followers who like to throw rocks and hide their hands. However I like to be fair and call a spade a spade. There is plenty of blame to go around among humans who mistreat other humans regardless of religion.

you will never find news of hindu slaughters.

List of Indian massacres

Anti-Brahmin riots of 1948

1969 Gujarat riots (Hindu/Muslim riots in which majority of the Muslims took heavy losses)

Moradabad riots

Bhagalpur riots (False rumors that reported regarding the killing of a Hindu students by Muslims which resulted in 900-1000 deaths mostly Muslim).

I could go on....

yes we are not tolerant so be careful if you intend to invade or convert. we are bad people and intolerant since millennia ... that's why we invaded your countries to make slaves and break your mosques and churches.

Um, I think you might need help sir....I would like to think most Hindus not tainted by a cultural belief of a caste system and have a more progressive mindset do not think as you do but more importantly it is important to note that Hindus have their fair share in a bloody history of death.


 
Top