Discussion of the Secret Book of John

[gnostic]

I think this should be included too, before your quote, Button, for even more complete picture of the ONE.

And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look.

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

 

[Buttons*]

"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior.

Light is synonomous with the One. It is above physical light. Forget what you know of "light." It is a light that burns within. (and without ) It's above anything mentally fathomable, and certainly simple enough for a child to understand. It is the one, and so easy to recognize, and equally easy to miss.

Many of the ways to explain the One will be used over and over. It IS so complex, and so simple that if you dont understand it, or feel the words that you read, you should clear your mind. Forget about the physical. Just read it allegorically. Opposites, and not quite opposite! They are two halves of the same coin. Think (hopefully the taoists wont shoot me for this) of Yin and Yang. Not quite opposite, but balance.

It is THIS balance that the spirit-figure is trying to teach John. The three identities are all of one, like a purely allegorical trinity, are the three parts of a person. Male, female, child... (also) spirit, soul, body. Things come in three, to cover all aspects of a person. Everything parallels a person inside. (This also helps when thinking of others on a spiritual level... but that's another discussion...)

He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal.

ChrisP says:
corporeal means "off the body/physical"
ChrisP says:
So it's in relation to this line : For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him.
ChrisP says:
So everything physical exists IN the source, but the source is also outside of the physical too...
... honestly, he said it better than I could have. It's a very important line to focus on, IMO....

He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior.

The One is immeasurable. There is no really great discription of the One that anyone could put into words, for if we could, it would not be the One. Words are of the physical and known. The one is unknown and sacred. Not to say that the One is completely hidden, but it IS hidden from the naked eye. Those who look for it will find it, but there is no "searching" involved. It's all around us, it IS us.... oh i could go on forever....
(get into it much Ashley?)

Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.

The One is limitless. It is not held by time, or any bounds that humans have created for It. It is forever... AND never, its everything we cannot grasp, but it's within our grasp. It's above anything we can physically imagine.

... so that's part one....

 

[Buttons*]

I think this should be included too, before your quote, Button, for even more complete picture of the ONE.

I thought that Halcyon posted that part, which is why I didnt feel like posting it again... i wanted to try and go in order.... but this is getting a tad out of hand...

 

[gnostic]

It is interesting to note that John's description (actually it is Jesus' description) of the One or the Parent of Entirety is one that cannot be described nor measured.

He is invisible, and yet he is the source of pure light which come from him. He is neither "corporeal" nor "incorporeal", which is contradiction. So what is he then?
It is sort of like me using the name "gnostic", but religiously, I'm really "agnostic". Don't I just love paradox! Oops, I'm getting sidetracked again.

One thing novice of Gnosticism should realise about this One or the great invisible Spirit is that he is not the creator of this world - Earth. Earth was created by a demiurge, who goes by several names - Yaldabaoth, Samael (blind god), and another that I don't remember - and titles such as Chief Archon (or Chief Ruler), Creator, Demiurge, Prime Parent. This Yaldabaoth is really the Gnostic version of Satan.

I am probably getting ahead of myself by mentioning Yaldabaoth, but it must be pointed out that the One is not the creator that we know of in the OT Genesis.

 

[gnostic]

There is no really great discription of the One that anyone could put into words, for if we could, it would not be the One. Words are of the physical and known. The one is unknown and sacred. Not to say that the One is completely hidden, but it IS hidden from the naked eye.

From what I can gathered, the Barbelo (Mother) and Autogenes (Son), the other two perfect aeons, whom the One created, are the only ones who can really see the One.

 

[ChrisP]

It is interesting to note that John's description (actually it is Jesus' description) of the One or the Parent of Entirety is one that cannot be described nor measured.

He is invisible, and yet he is the source of pure light which come from him. He is neither "corporeal" nor "incorporeal", which is contradiction. So what is he then?

It is the container and keeper of both. (sorry I refuse to give something without a body a gender )

One thing novice of Gnosticism should realise about this One or the great invisible Spirit is that he is not the creator of this world - Earth. Earth was created by a demiurge, who goes by several names - Yaldabaoth, Samael (blind god), and another that I don't remember - and titles such as Chief Archon (or Chief Ruler), Creator, Demiurge, Prime Parent. This Yaldabaoth is really the Gnostic version of Satan.
I am probably getting ahead of myself by mentioning Yaldabaoth, but it must be pointed out that the One is not the creator that we know of in the OT Genesis.

You might be ahead of yourself but you're behind us... sorry. That was discussed at the start of this thread and also in many previous threads in this same forum... try and keep up ay

What we're discussing here, is the nature of what Ash calls "the One", what I call "the Tao" and what Wiccans would call "The Source" (which is the nicest sounding if you ask me... stupid Wiccans and their nice-soundingness)... and we're discussing it through John's experiences in the Apocryphon of John, which can be found here : http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/apocjn.html

 

[Buttons*]

For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.

I think NOW is a good time to remind everyone that He is to be translated as The One, or It. If there was a name for it, we would not know it because we aren't capable of putting it into words. (words that i'll use in describing the one will be bolded for convenience...)

What gives us compassion? A heart for good? The will to do right? - The Light. (yes, obviously your parents raising influenced that too ) But when it comes down to it, if you are doing right by what is driving you within, that is Love's doing. It is by the allowence of Light that we feel things like compassion, mercy, and forgiveness.

Think of the One as your conciousness, the wide spectrum of GOOD emotions you've ever felt. Those are inspired by the Light.

"How am I to speak with you about him? His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything. For he is the head of all the aeons, and it is he who gives them strength in his goodness.

"what was before the beginning?" ... I'm sure you asked this as a child. (if you didnt, well, you're just strange!)

A straight answer, It simply was. Anyone else think that lumping it in with the One is just a cop-out for a real answer? Well, in some ways you'd be right. It's all about faith. Recognizing that the Light parallels with what is within (and without). Not just looking at it, really SEEING it.

... So what does this have to do with Aeons and the Beginning? Any opinions? *smiles*

For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. For it is he who told it to us alone.

The father is the light. Father is not literal whatsoever. Any concept of father you have, drop it. It is simply another name for the masculine energy. (It would be useless without the Mother... but we'll get to that later on)

We have been given all the tools necissary to see beyond looking, and listen beyond hearing. These tools have been highlighted for us within Gnostic texts, and sayings of Yeshua. (He would say, "my father who is in heaven"... but that phrase could be an entirely new thread on its own... so lets ignore that for now. maybe next time we'll delve into Toma )

For it is he who looks at himself in his light which surrounds him, namely the spring of the water of life.

He = One = Light = Good = Love. (so many names, and not one of them accuratley describe it...*sigh*) Coming to the realizations that this is all allegorical and applicable to disecting parts of the body, soul, and spirit, (if you really absorb it) makes you thirst. You've been brought to "the spring of the water of life" Infinate information and thoughts.

And it is he who gives to all the aeons and in every way, (and) who gazes upon his image which he sees in the spring of the Spirit. It is he who puts his desire in his water-light which is in the spring of the pure light-water which surrounds him.

Light and water are both elements required for life. So you see that you need light and you need water. You also need those spiritually. The One is the water and light source. You thirst spiritually, and getting closer to the One, (through gnosis) would quench it.

We all desire it, and it is open for the aquiring.

... and thats all for now.... more maybe later in the week
I'll leave these open for discussion probably through wednesday. JUST these passages i've attempted (poorly) to explain. Please give them some thought, and ask some questions. Halcyon and i will do our best to try and explain it further. Thanks!

 

[gnostic]

His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything.

Any opinions?

I'd guess that he like resting a lot. On holiday? A quiet fellow. A bit shy perhaps, so he's not really into gosssips and chatters. Perhaps, he needs a girlfriend, to loosen up. Oh, I forgot; he is already married to Mrs Two.

 

[Buttons*]

I'd guess that he is like resting a lot. On holiday? A quiet fellow. A bit shy perhaps, so he's not really into gosssips and chatters. Perhaps, he needs a girlfriend, to loosen up. Oh, I forgot; he is already married to Mrs Two.

 

[gnostic]

See what happen when you don't get more than 2 hours sleep each night, for the last 4 nights. You ramble. I need some more sleep.

 

[Buttons*]

See what happen when you don't get more than 2 hours sleep each night, for the last 4 nights. You ramble. I need some more sleep.

*hugs* It's okay,

go back to sleep, go back to sleep.....

I think I'll post the next part when i get home.

Forethought! arent you thrilled!?!!??!?! (i is)

 

[Buttons*]

"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect.”

Meet Barbelo *smiles* She is forethought. (if you think of the “gods” as thought personified, it really does help in realizing what they are for, why they are important, and how they apply to your own mind. [This also helps in the recognition of the One.] Each God describes an action or state of mind… which is pretty fantastic, imo…)

“The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth.”

She is before everything. She is merely an aspect of the Light.
What did you think before you had thoughts?.....
(This question should open up your mind to the possibilities and abstract ways in which He exists….yet doesn’t exist! )
… Barbelo is she, the first thought of the Divine! She balances the One and his masculine energy. (Any questions concerning the aspects of Barbelo should be directed at Paul, as he knows more about her role in the Good…what can I say? I’m a Sophia girl! )

“This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.”

The “triple male” phrase. It trips people up. (It definitely confused me at first!) Remember how before I said that you need to disregard what you know about Father when it talks about the Light? (In all its literal aspects) You do the same to any “male” and “female” description of the gods.

When the Gnostics said “male,” they MEANT it to read “spiritual.” So, Barbelo, being in the spiritual three times over, means that she is the most powerful spirit. Forethought, the most powerful because she equals the one in her mystery. She, though, has the ability to create! *smiles* (although she is described as a “She” the spirit itself is actually androgynous, but for balance, the nameless Light has been the designated male, and Barbelo, the female.

As my dear friend Paul put it:

”In theory she is the first thing that appears individualized, that is, not the homogenous silence that is the realm of God. She is still one with God, but she is no longer of a single substance - but at the same time she is.”

 

[ChrisP]

*hugs* It's okay,

go back to sleep, go back to sleep.....

I think I'll post the next part when i get home.

Forethought! arent you thrilled!?!!??!?! (i is)

OoooOOOooooOOOoooo yeah yeah...

A straight answer, It simply was. Anyone else think that lumping it in with the One is just a cop-out for a real answer? Well, in some ways you'd be right. It's all about faith. Recognizing that the Light parallels with what is within (and without). Not just looking at it, really SEEING it.

... So what does this have to do with Aeons and the Beginning? Any opinions? *smiles*

For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. For it is he who told it to us alone.

Measurable? immeasurable. Beyond the limits of our capacity to measure or understand and .

He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

With nothing to compare or contrast, there can be no beginning or end to the Source.

This kinda makes you wonder... is it possible that a kind of hell/negative afterlife experience exists as a seperation from the whole. The Source being complete both outside and within the physical, containing and embodying all things. To be outside all things... a troubling thought.

 

[Buttons*]

Measurable? immeasurable. Beyond the limits of our capacity to measure or understand and ....With nothing to compare or contrast, there can be no beginning or end to the Source.

Well, no, not an ACTUAL beginning. It just WAS. Like the Universe... think of thoughts themselves. They have always existed, people just recognize them and "claim" them differently... ( im very tired.... sorry if this sounds stupid....)

Well... as for the "beyond the limits of our capacity to comprehend" .... DUR! It's not about comprehension. *smiles*

This kinda makes you wonder... is it possible that a kind of hell/negative afterlife experience exists as a seperation from the whole. The Source being complete both outside and within the physical, containing and embodying all things. To be outside all things... a troubling thought.

Well, one thing i read a long time ago (that i'm not going to check because that would require movement...and so it may be wrong, but hell, lets take a chance) said that Satan was a hebrew word that meant "separate".... so yes, the Demiurge, imo, only separates you from the oneness that is. Any time you live materialistically and like a literalist hylic, this merits the demiurge to cut you off from the souce and god. THESE are all your choices to make however, and i dont see it as much of a cosmic battle as a recognition that ignorance is out there. You see it, smile at it, and just focus your attention on the Light instead of how the Demiurge will trip you.

also, gnostics dont believe in hell.... at least, this one doesnt

EDIT: Chrisp, after reading your post again, i realized you werent asking questions....(stupid sleep deprivation....) *sigh* so yesh, ignore it if you like, but i'm leaving it here cause i spent time on it!

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

The “triple male” phrase. It trips people up. (It definitely confused me at first!) Remember how before I said that you need to disregard what you know about Father when it talks about the Light? (In all its literal aspects) You do the same to any “male” and “female” description of the gods.

When the Gnostics said “male,” they MEANT it to read “spiritual.” So, Barbelo, being in the spiritual three times over, means that she is the most powerful spirit. Forethought, the most powerful because she equals the one in her mystery. She, though, has the ability to create! *smiles* (although she is described as a “She” the spirit itself is actually androgynous, but for balance, the nameless Light has been the designated male, and Barbelo, the female.

As my dear friend Paul put it:

”In theory she is the first thing that appears individualized, that is, not the homogenous silence that is the realm of God. She is still one with God, but she is no longer of a single substance - but at the same time she is.”

This goes along with the old testament, where God made man in his image, he made them both male and female, and him being the child, completes the trinity. The trinity is the substance of creation. And it is very hard to explain. The Christians deny part of the trinity by not accepting the female aspect, they call her the Holy Ghost, which is fine, but it is the divine feminine, not a male.

To explain the idea of the trinity being the substance of creation, I mean this, if you take a male cocker spaniel, and a female rotti, the two become one flesh, but it is something entirely new, something that is not only half mom and half dad, but also it's own. Another example to take this out of the physical and into something else, if a jewish woman, marries a catholic man, what will the child grow up to believe? Most likely it will not become completely Jewish, or completely Catholic, but it will be something that includes both, and is an entirely new point of view. The evolution of man, the evolution of life, the evolution of spirit, all work according to this model of the trinity.

God is a Trinity. Even Hinduism realizes that, for they call God, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The Kahunas of Hawaii call God, Ku, Kane and Kanola! The Egyptians, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. Native Americans, The Great Spirit, Mother Earth, and Father Sky.

Ok, I'm going off topic here. This link has a lot of information, some far out there, but it might be of some interest to you guys, you seem to be on this kind of level.

I AM UNIVERSITY

 

[Buttons*]

This goes along with the old testament, where God made man in his image, he made them both male and female, and him being the child, completes the trinity.

Unfortunatley, the "creator" god you speak of is the demiuge who was made from Sophia, and cast down upon earth. He is a selfish, and jealous god, (he has even said so)

HOWEVER, *smiles* there IS a trinity in the highest aeons with the One. (Source, Barbelo, and Seth... right? correct me on this if i'm wrong.) But i was kind of trying to avoid Gnostic similarities with Christianity. (they seem synonymous now...*sigh*) The Demiurge god, "god of Abraham" is NOT the same god of Gnostic tradition.

Try to think about it this way. Things that are created of the mind, spirit, and soul (trinity, eh?) are heavenly and of the one. Things created of the flesh are material and lack long-term substance.

The trinity is the substance of creation.

True!

And it is very hard to explain. The Christians deny part of the trinity by not accepting the female aspect, they call her the Holy Ghost, which is fine, but it is the divine feminine, not a male.

.... sort of.....

To explain the idea of the trinity being the substance of creation, I mean this, if you take a male cocker spaniel, and a female rotti, the two become one flesh, but it is something entirely new, something that is not only half mom and half dad, but also it's own. Another example to take this out of the physical and into something else, if a jewish woman, marries a catholic man, what will the child grow up to believe? Most likely it will not become completely Jewish, or completely Catholic, but it will be something that includes both, and is an entirely new point of view. The evolution of man, the evolution of life, the evolution of spirit, all work according to this model of the trinity.

This is all true... but not if you're living in ignorance.

God is a Trinity. Even Hinduism realizes that, for they call God, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The Kahunas of Hawaii call God, Ku, Kane and Kanola! The Egyptians, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. Native Americans, The Great Spirit, Mother Earth, and Father Sky.

Yesh, this explains how Gnosticism allows me to be pretty much anything i want!!!! *smiles* The fact of the matter is, most religions have the same base, they just explain it slightly differently, or have differnt names for things. At their core though.... there IS ONE SOURCE.... *smiles*

Ok, I'm going off topic here. This link has a lot of information, some far out there, but it might be of some interest to you guys, you seem to be on this kind of level.

I AM UNIVERSITY

thanks for the link! *smiles* i'll check it out after I work on this thread a bit more....

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Oh, we are so on the same page. I think you will like the website, but it is kind of hard to dig through all of it. Isn't the Demiurge more likened to the Satan character of Christianity, the one who was cast down and given dominion over mankind. If we are all of the One, the so would Satan/Demiurge. And if we are like Gods, so are they. The Greeks called alot of enlightened beings as God's, so the Demiuge also could be called a God. For that matter, Jesus is called God. But the God of Abraham, the I AM, I believe the same Source you speak of, the Light, Allah, Tao, Abba, they are all the same HE/SHE/ALL THAT IS.

 

[Buttons*]

Oh, we are so on the same page. I think you will like the website, but it is kind of hard to dig through all of it.

many thanks! *smiles*

Isn't the Demiurge more likened to the Satan character of Christianity, the one who was cast down and given dominion over mankind.

The Demiurge, if taken literally, (see, now we're getting into the mythology of it... which was not the purpose of this thread ) the Demiurge is the flawed creator god who created this world and all that is in it. He said, "I am a jealous God." Yes, he has God-like qualities, but only because he came from Sophia, who came from the Source. He craeted adam and eve (which means life!!) after Adamas, the Perfect Human created by the One. He tried to keep them ignorant by keeping them from the fruit off the tree of knowledge. Sophia, in an attempt to redeem herself, appeared to Adam and Eve as an eagle and landed on the tree. Seth, son of the perfect Human Adamas (and a direct parallel to Yeshua) appeared as the serpant who led Adam and Eve to the tree. Eve is actually a hero in our mythology.

*breaths in deeply*

And now for the ALLEGORY!!!! (see why i didnt want to delve into mythology?)

From one thought and perfect indivisible mind, we have wisdom, forethought, and light. When wisdom creates without being in tune with the sources wants and desires, we have ignorance, a separation from the Light that is ugly and incomplete. This "god" of our mind gives us anger, fear, jealousy, deciet, hate... anything negative you can imagine. Therefore it is jealous because of its very flawed nature. In each of us, there exists Adam and Eve. Balancing powers, male and female. Within us, there is also the higher thoughts, wisdom, forethought, and the unconcious which contains the source. *giggles* (this excites me to talk about it...)

If we are all of the One, the so would Satan/Demiurge. And if we are like Gods, so are they. The Greeks called alot of enlightened beings as God's, so the Demiuge also could be called a God.

No, I suggest you read some of the gnostic gospels on creation. This would help you get a better of what the Demiurge truely is according to our faith. Ignorance. The fault of all rests upon this one entity of the mind.

For that matter, Jesus is called God.

We are all God. Everything is. Yeshua was just one of the VERY few who realized it in his lifetime and taught others! *smiles*

But the God of Abraham, the I AM, I believe the same Source you speak of, the Light, Allah, Tao, Abba, they are all the same HE/SHE/ALL THAT IS.

I AM - this is the source, WE ARE I AM!!! YOU ARE!!! I AM!!!
Light - source
Allah - ....depends on what you mean; only if not literalist.
Abba - this means father, doesnt it? is it not another name for the demiurge? Only the Demiurge could have a name we could pronounce and comprehend... imo
Tao - The Way, source

...wow, that took a lot of energy.....

 

[Buttons*]

********I would like to take a moment to apologize.

I told you that I would take verses directly from the book... and I havent been. The thread got to moving fairy fast... so I took online sources for quotes. It may not be a big deal to you all... but to me, the words from the book are put together MUCH better and (haha) with better footnotes. I think we'll just stay on the topic of Barbelo for a while. She does take quite a while to really... think about understanding

At this time I would like it if no one would post scripture anywhere past the point I stopped. We're staying with John, not to worry, I'll make other threads for other books later. (namely Toma, and Miriam --- she's my favorite!)

For now, i just want the allegories to sink in. Please keep an open mind, and try not to take the mythology into it. This is a thinking thread, not a fact thread. In places that people need to have a "background check" so they can understand the story, please PM either Halcyon or myself. We'd be happy to answer those non-thinking questions. We could also direct you to websites that would be helpful if you'd like.

If this is confusing, lets spend some time on it. I'll wait till the "group" (or lack thereof ) is ready to go.

....end transmission

(i always wanted to say that *smiles*)

 

[Halcyon]

Sorry to go off topic, but it'll only be this one post Ash. I just want to try and clear something up.

Gnosticism is very old, it predates Christianity. It has probably always been around, it crops up time and again. Taoism and Buddhism both contain aspects of what i consider Gnostic thought, yet they originated far from the Jewish and Christian Gnostics. Also read some Carl Jung, he's come up with the Gnostic thought on his own in modern times.

When it comes to mythology, Gnosticism uses the myths of whatever culture that it is in, to try and explain concepts that are difficult to grasp.
Thats why we have Jewish, Christian and Islamic Gnostic texts, that when boiled down give us the same concepts.

Reading the discussion between Enhanced Spirit and Buttons*, we have this;

This goes along with the old testament, where God made man in his image, he made them both male and female, and him being the child, completes the trinity. The trinity is the substance of creation. And it is very hard to explain. The Christians deny part of the trinity by not accepting the female aspect, they call her the Holy Ghost, which is fine, but it is the divine feminine, not a male.

And Buttons* response.

Unfortunatley, the "creator" god you speak of is the demiuge who was made from Sophia, and cast down upon earth. He is a selfish, and jealous god, (he has even said so)

HOWEVER, *smiles* there IS a trinity in the highest aeons with the One. (Source, Barbelo, and Seth... right? correct me on this if i'm wrong.) But i was kind of trying to avoid Gnostic similarities with Christianity. (they seem synonymous now...*sigh*) The Demiurge god, "god of Abraham" is NOT the same god of Gnostic tradition.

Both are correct. The Gnostics used different stories in the OT to explain different things and sometimes they attributed different events within a story to the Gnostic God, others to the Demiurge - to a modern Christian it is difficult to see when, how and why these distinctions are being made
On the whole we see the God of the OT as being the Demuirge, but not everything in the OT was the work of the Demiurge.

Buttons* is correct when she says that the God of modern Christians, of Jews and of Muslims is the Demiurge, but its not quite that clear cut - we need to keep in mind that it is the concept the story is being used to represent that is important, and not so much the story itself.

When we say God though, we do not mean Yahweh or Jehovah or Allah or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, nor any combination of them. God has never played a direct part in anything that has happened on Earth.