Did the Pharisees Purposely Make up Christianity?

[firedragon]

the New Testament is heavily edited

Then why do you trust it?

 

[wizanda]

Then it is unclear why you are referring to the midrash in that thread (made by me, by the way; it was my second thread here) since it does not agree with your view.

Thank you very much for sharing that thread; it confirmed what I believed scripture already stated would happen, that the Pharisees would corrupt the message of the Messiah on purpose.

Which is then why to include it, as from the Bible we can show it was prophesied, and from the later Midrash we can show that the Rabbinic Rebels are there mocking the Gentiles, that they've made up their religion.

Now as stating to you prior if you accept Messianic prophecy before Armageddon kicks off, then I believe we could fix these religious crises; otherwise God has stated he will wipe the lot of you out, for having lied to all these people, and getting the theology of the Bible very wrong - where personally I'd rather educate everyone, not just allow them to be destroyed, when they don't even understand why they're being sentenced.

In my opinion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please do take into account that I believe we can prove I'm the return of Christ, here trying to save many of your existences, and though I'm using ReligiousForums as a method of dialogue with the world, much of where I'm coming from has been inspired by God. - In other words, I'm on your side.

Lol, no. My Savior is sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, not typing on a message board.

 

[wizanda]

Then why do you trust it?

Having spent 18 years discussing religion with people online; I find that a lot of religious people, seem to think in the perspective of all or nothing.

Plus many have a boolean way of thinking, which is that there is a 'true, false, & null' answer.

Yet the reality of any testimony is it will always have errors, there are always discrepancies; especially when we have to translate that into other languages, as language its self can be ambiguous, and doesn't always translate exactly.

Thus I can address what is written in a testimony like a Lawyer working for God; I might find some religious texts completely off the mark, yet if discussing with someone who believes it, then I will address where it is accurate to help them, and why it doesn't add up.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Lol, no. My Savior is sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, not typing on a message board.

The spirit of Salvation (Yeshua) is an aspect of God, and so always is at the side of God... My name more implies a Sickle/Exegesis before the Harvest.

Yet according to my understanding of prophecy globally, I'm sent as the return of Christ before the Great Tribulation, and then Judgement Day; where I've fulfilled multiple prophecies prior to reading the religious texts, which stated some of the things I've done in this life.

Now personally I'd like us all to get along, and understand each other properly, not laugh at it like it is some big joke; as I know I've had a Near Death, had the Source of reality show me the destruction of reality, and then the resurrection of the Enlightened Saints - thus personally I fear for you all, and thus work hard to explain things clearly, and concisely for your benefits.

In my opinion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Saul was taking letters to the synagogue in Damascus, not to any political authorities.
I don't know if the Roman political authorities would have been on the side of the High Priest in Jerusalem or not (see Acts 9) or if he was taking any prisoners back to Jerusalem slyly.

That is odd because even Christian sources disagree with you:

"
This is the story of Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus.

Saul represents the world. Saul was so passionate about his Jewish convictions that he started a mistreatment crusade against any individual who had faith in Jesus. For what reason would the Jews need to oppress Christians to the extent that Saul was sent to Damascus?

There are a few prospects: to hold onto the Christians who had escaped, to contain and forestall the spread of Christianity to other significant urban communities, to hold the Christians back from inciting any issues in Rome, to propel Saul’s vocation and fabricate his standing as a genuine Pharisee — who was enthusiastic for the law, and to bind together the groups of Judaism by giving them a shared adversary.

But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison (Acts 8:3).

As Paul headed out to Damascus, seeking after Christians, he was stopped by the risen Christ and witnessed the reality of the gospel. Occasionally God breaks into an individual’s life in a fantastic way, and now and then transformation is a calm encounter."

What Is the Significance of Paul on Damascus Road?

By the way, why are you being inconsistent with the name that you use for him? He never changed his name.

 

[Harel13]

Which is then why to include it, as from the Bible we can show it was prophesied, and from the later Midrash we can show that the Rabbinic Rebels are there mocking the Gentiles, that they've made up their religion.

Where do you see mocking in the midrash?

 

[firedragon]

Having spent 18 years discussing religion with people online; I find that a lot of religious people, seem to think in the perspective of all or nothing.

So how do you pick and choose? Whats the criteria?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I have always known @wizanda 's vision of Christianity.
If I have understood correctly he believes that Ebionites is true Christianity, hijacked by both Peter and Paul.

Obviously I believe Jesus is God...but I think Paul's theology is flawed and clearly adulterated.

As their stated and obvious goal is to unite all of the religions, it is unsurprising that they take the most stubbornly fundamentalist book, the Quran, as the epitome of truth and then hack everyone else's scriptures all to pieces to make them marginal commentaries to the Quran. If any religion has even the tiniest bit of humility about it scripture then Wizanda will use that to carve it into a Quran, but the Quran they fear to touch. This they called '0neness' but is nothing less than an islamic missionary attempt far as can be seen. Calls himself the messiah but can't wait to destroy every religion except for Islam. Where is the one ness in that? Where is the brotherhood and the dialogue between religions?

@wizanda

 

[Estro Felino]

As their stated and obvious goal is to unite all of the religions, it is unsurprising that they take the most stubbornly fundamentalist book, the Quran, as the epitome of truth and then hack everyone else's scriptures all to pieces to make them marginal commentaries to the Quran. If any religion has even the tiniest bit of humility about it scripture then Wizanda will use that to carve it into a Quran, but the Quran they fear to touch. This they called '0neness' but is nothing less than an islamic missionary attempt far as can be seen. Calls himself the messiah but can't wait to destroy every religion except for Islam. Where is the one ness in that? Where is the brotherhood and the dialogue between religions?

@wizanda

Speaking of fundamentalism, I was taught that the Bible is inspired by God and it is not God who wrote it.
As for Saint Paul's epistles, I have never considered them as a theological truth, as if Jesus were speaking by Paul's mouth. Quite the contrary. I think they were letters. As bishops, vicars or priests write letters to their own parishioners. They are useful advices and recommendations, but I have never considered them as texts dictated by Jesus.
I respect @wizanda's views, even if I disagree with them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Speaking of fundamentalism, I was taught that the Bible is inspired by God and it is not God who wrote it.
As for Saint Paul's epistles, I have never considered them as a theological truth, as if Jesus were speaking by Paul's mouth. Quite the contrary. I think they were letters. As bishops, vicars or priests write letters to their own parishioners. They are useful advices and recommendations, but I have never considered them as texts dictated by Jesus.
I respect @wizanda's views, even if I disagree with them.

We will see if they also respect your views while disagreeing with them, however you do not come to us claiming to be a prophet. You come to be friends, to share your view, to receive other views. Your goal is not to correct us all but to know us, or so it seems to me. Do you believe that misunderstanding of scripture is the cause of all wars? You've never to my knowledge claimed so. Do you believe that all deviations from your beliefs are the result of corruption? You've never claimed so. Do you believe that your beliefs are necessary to save us all from terrible destruction and that RF is a channel for you to change what everyone thinks to what you know to be true? So far you've never claimed this.

 

[metis]

Anyone is capable of acting like a Rabbi, and sermonizing their own commentary, it doesn't make us all Pharisees.

I'm saying, and generally those in Judaism would most assuredly agree, Jesus was of the Pharisee tradition for reasons stated. Now, whether he saw himself that way, or whether the Apostles did, is another question.

 

[wizanda]

Where do you see mocking in the midrash?

I was originally meaning I think some of the Rabbinic Jews know they made up the Christian texts; the problem is I think they think they made up the lot, when God has set them up for leading people astray.

Next the Midrash is hundreds of years after the origins of Christianity, where the Rabbis are writing after thoughts, that they know they made it up - thus I perceive this is also mocking the Gentiles.

The funny bit, is if they read the Bible a bit better, they'd know God said they'd do this, and now comes the question, can we stop their destruction that they've caused.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

I was originally meaning I think some of the Rabbinic Jews know they made up the Christian texts; the problem is I think they think they made up the lot, when God has set them up for leading people astray

Yet the midrash does not assert that the "collective of Jews" made up Christianity. Once again, it simply states that one person did it. On his own.

 

[wizanda]

So how do you pick and choose? Whats the criteria?

We have to 'build precept upon precept' as prophesied about the returning of the Messiah (Isaiah 28:13).

The meaning of 'Precept upon precept' is that we go back to the foundation materials first, and see what is being built on...

So if someone wants to say Moses said 'this', and "that"... We assess what was actually stated, and why, based on the manuscripts assigned to said person.

Then when we have a list of texts claiming to be by someone, we assess do they sound the same, and what are the standards put forward.

So basically we build a trajectory of ideologies, so we can see what was expected, what is stated, and does it all align with the target.

When it comes to the New Testament, we can show that what Yeshua stated in Matthew, aligns with Mark, and Luke i.e. Synoptic Gospels (which means See Together As One).

We can question was there a Q source as an origin, and is there any logical reason if they came from one source, why would they miss bits out, and completely reword them.

We build case files, like a police investigation, when we do this we can show so much evidence.

We can have evidence in court room case files we know are false, yet they are still submitted to the hearing; as it might prove false statements, and perjury.

So for example we can compare Matthew, Mark Vs John on the destroying of the temple, and it rebuilt in three days...

It is stated as made up hearsay evidence from false witnesses in Matthew 26:59-61, Mark 14:55-59, that Yeshua said he would rebuild the 2nd temple in three days; whereas John tells that as a truth (John 2:19-22).

As we build up case files, we can logically show a tipping point, where the amount of errors, proves something is untrustworthy.

It is the like Hadith Science where we can assess do they align with the Quran, and early scholarship.

Like if you look at these links on John, Paul, Simon this is only a start to some of the dissecting that I've done on the case to understand it, where I've learned to then find it a blessing understanding the complexities.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Yet the midrash does not assert that the "collective of Jews" made up Christianity. Once again, it simply states that one person did it. On his own.

I believe if the Rabbinic Rebels know they are currently manipulating the human race, then that sort of catches out all that are aware of it.

Plus I understand scripture to state that the Source of reality will remove those guilty in the Judgement Day Fire (Jeremiah 5:26, Isaiah 29:20-21), unless of course we could get them to repent like Nineveh (Hopeful Jonah).

In my opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It looks like you are defending Saint Paul. Are you?

It's not defending or attacking. Much of what is attributed to him likely wasn't him.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The prophecies in the Tanakh relay that Yeshua cut the Jews off (Zechariah 11:1-14), and so Paul is cleverly rewriting them to the other nations (Gentiles), making people believe that to a follow of Christ it is 'first Jew, and then Gentile' (Romans 2:10)...

Whereas Christ was saying those who follow him like the Roman Centurion will be included in the kingdom, and the Jews will be kicked out (Matthew 8:5-13).

In my opinion.

More anti-semitic rubbish.

 

[firedragon]

We have to 'build precept upon precept' as prophesied about the returning of the Messiah (Isaiah 28:13).

The meaning of 'Precept upon precept' is that we go back to the foundation materials first, and see what is being built on...

So if someone wants to say Moses said 'this', and "that"... We assess what was actually stated, and why, based on the manuscripts assigned to said person.

Then when we have a list of texts claiming to be by someone, we assess do they sound the same, and what are the standards put forward.

So basically we build a trajectory of ideologies, so we can see what was expected, what is stated, and does it all align with the target.

When it comes to the New Testament, we can show that what Yeshua stated in Matthew, aligns with Mark, and Luke i.e. Synoptic Gospels (which means See Together As One).

We can question was there a Q source as an origin, and is there any logical reason if they came from one source, why would they miss bits out, and completely reword them.

We build case files, like a police investigation, when we do this we can show so much evidence.

We can have evidence in court room case files we know are false, yet they are still submitted to the hearing; as it might prove false statements, and perjury.

So for example we can compare Matthew, Mark Vs John on the destroying of the temple, and it rebuilt in three days...

It is stated as made up hearsay evidence from false witnesses in Matthew 26:59-61, Mark 14:55-59, that Yeshua said he would rebuild the 2nd temple in three days; whereas John tells that as a truth (John 2:19-22).

As we build up case files, we can logically show a tipping point, where the amount of errors, proves something is untrustworthy.

It is the like Hadith Science where we can assess do they align with the Quran, and early scholarship.

Like if you look at these links on John, Paul, Simon this is only a start to some of the dissecting that I've done on the case to understand it, where I've learned to then find it a blessing understanding the complexities.

In my opinion.

Like Hadith science? That's your contention?

Can you tell me how you would establish thadhlees in the New Testament?

 

[Harel13]

I believe if the Rabbinic Rebels know they are currently manipulating the human race, then that sort of catches out all that are aware of it.

So basically, all Jews are to blame for the action of one Jew, is that what you're saying?