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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
Peace8700
Candle For The Dark
John 10:30
Yes it is natural..... even if the two friends r on same grid n they have lov n respect for eachother, they r said to b the one...the best example is ov a hubby n wife ..... where the wife is known as "the better half"..... meaning that hubby n wife r one..... this is a specially affiliated state ov mind..... Jesus was right in saying that he n Father r same.... means both r on one grid...one is creator n one is messanger but the message n belief is same.....the One..... Hope understood now
Yes it is natural..... even if the two friends r on same grid n they have lov n respect for eachother, they r said to b the one...the best example is ov a hubby n wife ..... where the wife is known as "the better half"..... meaning that hubby n wife r one..... this is a specially affiliated state ov mind..... Jesus was right in saying that he n Father r same.... means both r on one grid...one is creator n one is messanger but the message n belief is same.....the One..... Hope understood now
That is correct. But how do you reconcile the statements of difference with statements such as ...I and My Father are one ?
Muffled
Jesus in me
There is no doubt that Jesus uses I am several times as part of a sentence referring to Himself.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
In this verse the "before Abraham was born" is an adverbial phrase for the verb I am. This means that the I am is not simply a personal reference but is modified by the phrase. Jesus is claiming existence before Abraham was born but does not do so by using past tense which would be the case for any creation but the present tense which is only true of God. Your use of the future tense is mistaken by the idea that the present is continually on-going. In that sense also it is a reference to God because He is the only true on-going person. Everyone else can be destroyed.
Yes, the disciples can be one with God. However it is a matter of free will. Our sinful nature tends to not like to do that. However the verse you are referrring to is: John 17:11 ¶ And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. This is a prayer for the way God wishes it to be. I John 10:30 Jesus is making a direct statement that He and God are one without any modifiers. There is no doubt that John 14 tells us how we can become one with God. John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
You will have to provide evidence. I don't know of any verses that support those statements.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This makes no sense. Jesus has already told his disciples that He will be crucified and that it is part of the plan.
You might have a point there because Roman emperors called thenselves god and wouldn't want anyone else doing so because it would be a challenge to their authority. However Jesus didn't make that claim before Romans. He made it in the presence of Pharisees. However even in the vaguest of terms they had no trouble understanding what He was saying. John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
That would be relevant if Jesus were equating Himself to a god but instead He was equating Himself to the Father.
This is an extraction of the full text which is: John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus is not saying that He is a god but that He is The Son of God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Mohammed is not the door. He can't say whether a person can enter Heavven or not, only God can do that.
waitasec
Veteran Member
of course it makes sense, what does disciple mean to you?
those were his followers...he never told the pharisees or the romans his true intentions because of what will happen, a quick removal...
jesus represented a threat to both of these parties, so yes it makes sense.
God is one and there is none worthy of worship except Him. Jesus (Peace be upon him) is a messenger of God and he never claimed divinity and there is no clear statement in the Bible where he claimed divinity, all the verses that the original poster stated can be interpreted in multiple ways, why is there no clear statement in the Bible given this is such an important matter?
Eg. John 10:30 I and My Father are one - this could mean they are one in purpose, not in divinity
John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father - this could mean that who has seen Jesus has seen guidance to God
All the examples given can be interpreted in other ways like this.
However there are many statements that make it clear that Jesus was not divine:
John 6:57 “I live because of the Father.”
John 12:49 “The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment.”
Hebrews 2:9 “But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.”
Matt. 27:46 “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?”
John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.”
Rev. 3:12 “… the temple of my God… the name of my God… the city of my God… comes down out of heaven from my God.”
You should take the verses that are clear and build your understanding around those and then they will guide you through the verses that can be interpreted in multiple ways so you may get the correct meaning, with the will of God.
Eg. John 10:30 I and My Father are one - this could mean they are one in purpose, not in divinity
John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father - this could mean that who has seen Jesus has seen guidance to God
All the examples given can be interpreted in other ways like this.
However there are many statements that make it clear that Jesus was not divine:
John 6:57 “I live because of the Father.”
John 12:49 “The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment.”
Hebrews 2:9 “But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.”
Matt. 27:46 “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?”
John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.”
Rev. 3:12 “… the temple of my God… the name of my God… the city of my God… comes down out of heaven from my God.”
You should take the verses that are clear and build your understanding around those and then they will guide you through the verses that can be interpreted in multiple ways so you may get the correct meaning, with the will of God.
Shermana
Heretic
The PHARISEES accused him of making himself to be "a god", by being the "Son of god" which also means "Angel" (which originally was "god" as in Psalms 136:2, God of the gods"), but would such place him, as THE son as equal to God. Either way, Nothing in John 10:30-39 says anything about Jesus making himself to be God except for the false interpretation of verse 10:33. It is a confusing passage that is further complicated with misuse of the word "Theos" in 33.
The concept is, that Yashua called himself "Son of god", which means "a god", and the Pharisees were thinking he was equating himself with God. Not once did they actually think he was making himself out to be God himself, when you read verse 33 properly as "a god". They were assuming he was saying he had the same authority as the Father, but was not the same being. This is made clear in the summary of the accusation.
If this doesn't make sense, in Job, angels are called "Sons of god". In Psalms 136:2, Angels are directly called "gods". The Pharisees were assuming that by calling himself "Son of God" he was EQUATING himself to God by being "a god".
Why do you suppose Jesus responded by reciting Psalms 86:2?
The confusion lies in people assuming that Jesus was about to be stoned for calling himself God, when it was in fact calling himself the SON and EQUATING himself which was why they tried him. This is not a Trintiarian passage whatsoever. And it's amusing when people use 10:30 as if "I and the Father are one" means they are the same being in the face of "Let them be one as we are one".
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You have yet to show me one scripture where Jesus states I am not God !
waitasec
Veteran Member
nice maneuver...clear and concise ducking technique...much like the one who you claim to be the son of god err i mean god...
i'm impressed.
Blackheart
Active Member
Im still waiting for Jesus to say he is God too! Dont know why so many people need him to be more than the Son of God.
Shermana
Heretic
"My God, my God why have you forsaken me"
Now: What could this possibly mean? Just a simple recitation of the Psalms?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
If I say, "I am going to live with my father, Hank", then I am obviously not my father, Hank.
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
John 20:17
Now, as to your claim.
Can you supply a verse where Jesus explicitly states "I am God (Yahweh)"?
waitasec
Veteran Member
schizophrenic?
because in the luke account he seems to know what's happening...
43:23 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
i know it's off topic, but it's an interesting thing to consider, at least i think so....
waitasec
Veteran Member
Jacksnyte
Reverend
Who said anything about you ? I didnt.