This is where I got the idea that Jesus was talking about the transfiguration. https://www.compellingtruth.org/not-taste-death.html
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Did Jesus Christ actually die?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
This is where I got the idea that Jesus was talking about the transfiguration. https://www.compellingtruth.org/not-taste-death.html
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And that is not a justified interpretation. The only reason for that interpretation is because a clear interpretation fails. In your own words try to justify the claim that he was mixing two different topics in one prophesy.
Of course He died just like anyone dies. But they didn’t kill His Cause, which rose up and spread throughout the world. They killed His Body but not His Spirit which lives on in the hearts of people.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Yes, the mortal tabernacle of Jesus of Nazareth died and did not return. The person of the Son of God did return on his own volition in the form we shall all have upon the resurrection in heaven.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”
I believe the believing part is the difficulty. Belief is the basis for faith and faith is a gift.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the apostles reported He died because they observed the death of the body. John knows the real deal.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the swoon theory is impossible if one believes the scriptures.
Why do you think people believe it?
Why do you think Jesus walked the earth in his heavenly form?
Colt
Well-Known Member
Prove his authority as he said he would and prove life after death. He told Mary not to touch him. He also would suddenly appear then vanish.
the question is not
Jesus Christ Actually died, the question is: Why did Jesus suffer and died?
the answer to that question: Jesus Christ actually died. you may want to know the reason why Jesus Christ suffered and died.
HaEmeth
Truth sets free
On the contrary, death is not final unless it is the second death - “The lake of fire” into which death, Hades, the symbolic “wild beast” and “the false prophet,” Satan, his demons, and the persistent practicers of wickedness on earth are cast. (Revelation 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8; Matthew 25:41) It is evident from the cited texts that there is no release possible from “the second death.”
Those in “the second death” corresponds much to the outcome warned of in such text as, for example, Matthew 12:32::
"... whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come."
To demonstrate the fallacy of your contention, I quote Revelation 21:8:
Re 21:8 "But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”
To which of the categories above would you classify Jesus as a person, of whom the Apostle Peter said: "He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth." - 1 Peter 2:21
Initially death resulted from and was passed on to mankind as a result of Adam’s transgression - the so-called inherited death.
But even inherited death is not final. Some of those who died this so-called Adamic death, like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are all still living from God's standpoint:
Luke 20:37, 38 But that the dead are raised up, even Moses made known in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him
Another case in point: When Jesus was informed of his friend Lazarus death, note what he said:
John 11:11-14 After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly: " Lazarus has died "
Afterwards, Jesus resurrected Lazarus.
As noted above, Jesus died without sin, so it is not Adamic death but rather a redemptive death - a death to ransom mankind from Adamic death. By suffering death, Jesus ‘tasted death for every man’ and provided “a corresponding ransom for all.” (Hebrews 2:9; 1 Timothy 2:6)
1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness."
Adam sold mankind to sin and death for his disobedience. Jesus redeemed mankind by dying in perfect obedience. He did not deserve to die. We do. Nevertheless, he tasted death for each one of us.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors. The chastisement meant for our peace was upon him, and because of his wound there has been a healing for us
Peace to all!
HaEmeth
Truth sets free
Jesus' resurrection is a cornerstone of the Christian faith. Without it whole Christianity crumbles. No one who rejects it for what it really is - a rising from the dead, not from a pretend death - can rightly call himself a Christian. The apostle Paul at 1 Corinthians 15:14, 15 (KJV) puts it bluntly:
"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ."
Resurrection is a miracle that can only be attributed, directly or indirectly, to God. Being supernatural in nature, science can not prove or disprove it inasmuch as science's domain is the natural world. As Professor of Nuclear Science and Engineering of MIT, Ian Hutchinson puts it: "Science offers natural explanations of natural events. It has no power or need to assert that only natural events happen." - Can a scientist believe in the resurrection? Three hypotheses. - The Veritas Forum
If Jesus were only pretending to be dead then he would have pulled off the greatest, cruelest hoax perpetrated in human history for all his Apostles - eyewitnesses of his resurrection (1 Cor 15:3-8) - and countless others, willingly submitted to martyrdom in defense of their faith in a genuine resurrection. I doubt if any will be willing to die for a pretend event especially if he were contemporary to the said event. The only sensible conclusion is that it was a genuine resurrection.
Professor Hutchinson, makes this argument more compelling when he said in his talk "Can a Scientist Believe in the Resurrection? Three Hypotheses" (Can a scientist believe in the resurrection? Three hypotheses. - The Veritas Forum):
"... the first disciples attested to a physical resurrection. How could an untruth logically support high moral character? How could it have sustained the apostles through the extremes of persecution they experienced founding Christianity?
"Contrary to increasingly popular opinion, science is not our only means for accessing truth. In the case of Jesus’ resurrection, we must consider the historical evidence, and the historical evidence for the resurrection is as good as for almost any event of ancient history. The extraordinary character of the event, and its significance, provide a unique context, and ancient history is necessarily hard to establish. But a bare presumption that science has shown the resurrection to be impossible is an intellectual cop-out. Science shows no such thing."
He is backed up by Matt J. Rossano, Professor of Pyschology at Southeastern Louisiana Univesity in his article "Does Resurrection Contradict Science" who said (Does Resurrection Contradict Science? | HuffPost):
"Now, what convinces the believer that Resurrection merits such authority when other imaginative possibilities such as extraterrestrial life or time-travel do not? The answer here appears to be historical commitment. There’s no record of people committing themselves to the point of martyrdom to other imaginative possibilities as they have to Resurrection. The earliest example of such commitment being found, of course, in the dramatic post-crucifixion turn-around of the Apostles. Such an astounding change of heart, followed by an unwavering commitment capable of altering human history demands a categorically unique explanation: Resurrection."
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe they use imagination to explain a verse in the Qu'ran. I can vouch by what the Holy Spirit has told me that they are wrong about it.
I don't believe the swoon theory because it has no historical proof that supports it. The beliefs about Jesus in the Quran are eisegesis. Not My Jesus Part 2: A Defense Of Orthodox Christology | Reasons for Jesus
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Eddi "If It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!"
I agree with one here, please.
Regards
The ressurection of Jesus doesn't take away from Jesus dying on the cross.
lukethethird
unknown member
It depends on how much one likes the story.