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Did Jesus Christ actually die?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Sounds like what the Ahmadiyya believes, that Jesus was basically in a state near death but not actually dead.

ETA Meher Baba might have believed something similar but you would have to ask @sun rise about that for clarification.
Jesus was to show Sign of Jonah to the Jews of the day, and they knew what was written in the Book of Jonah. Jonah did not dies in any phase of the event, so why should Jesus die, please?
It is happy news for the Christians that Jesus did not die on the Cross, they may stop sinning, Jesus refused to take burden of sins of the Christians, I understand, so they better take burden of their own sins and be normal persons as the rest of humanity is, please. Right, please?

Regards
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Jesus was to show Sign of Jonah to the Jews of the day, and they knew what was written in the Book of Jonah. Jonah did not dies in any phase of the event, so why should Jesus die, please?
It is happy news for the Christians that Jesus did not die on the Cross, they may stop sinning, Jesus refused to take burden of sins of the Christians, I understand, so they better take burden of their own sins and be normal persons as the rest of humanity is, please. Right, please?

Regards
Whatever, any way we look at it, it's all up to interpretation.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It depends on your definition of death. In Genesis 2 the word "die" is plural as in more than one death. Do you really die when your body dies? No. Your spirit and soul lives on so in a sense death isn't final.

What death is final? The death of your physical body can be final unless there is a God intervention. There were a few recorded resurrections within the Bible. I believe that when it turns into dust or is cremated... its pretty final.

Did Jesus's body die? Yes. When the spear penetrated the side to his heart, the separation of the plasma and the red corpuscles was evidence of his death. If that wasn't enough, the other two hanging people had their legs broken to let them die... the fact that they didn't do it to Jesus was another confirmation that his body had die.

The act of a resurrection is what we called a miracle and verifies that God has the power to do it as well as the power to resurrect people from the grasp of sin.
KenS " The act of a resurrection is what we called a miracle"

As I understand, it never happened, so there is no "miracle" in it, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
KenS " The act of a resurrection is what we called a miracle"

As I understand, it never happened, so there is no "miracle" in it, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
That is the crux of the matter. Did it happen or didn't it. Paul believed he did. The Apostles believed he did. It was reported that he did.

Some believed he didn't. Islam said he didn't.

I believe he did.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
If that was true, he would eventually have died of old age like all humans. After the bible accounts of Jesus being killed and resurrected to heaven, he disappears from the face of the earth. Since he was still young and had more followers than most people on Instagram, where would he have gone to hide? And why would he want to? He could have just kept teaching and preaching.
I get it that believing people can be raised back from death is hard to wrap your head around, but if you believe in an all powerful God, you can also believe God has the power to perform a resurrection.
Vee " he would eventually have died of old age like all humans"

Yes, Jesus died a natural death later at the age of 120 years or so, I understand. Be happy with this news, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
That is the crux of the matter. Did it happen or didn't it. Paul believed he did. The Apostles believed he did. It was reported that he did.

Some believed he didn't. Islam said he didn't.

I believe he did.
KenS " Paul believed he did"

Paul faked a vision and invented it, I understand, and the credulous followed Paul and his new religion, please. Right friend, please?
But be happy, Jesus did not die a cursed death and died a natural death later, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
KenS " Paul believed he did"

Paul faked a vision and invented it, I understand, and the credulous followed Paul and his new religion, please. Right friend, please?
But be happy, Jesus did not die a cursed death and died a natural death later, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

I am very happy. Faith in the Jesus saved my marriage and changed my life.

Haven't found anything that has substance that says Paul invented the story. Certainly Peter said we should accept what Paul said... I have no reason to doubt it.

But thanks for the good wishes.

Shalom,

Ken
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The point of the story is lost if Jesus doesn't die ─ that point being his miraculous resurrection.

So ─ given there was in fact an historical Jesus, and that the usually efficient Romans crucified him ─ the strong likelihood is that he died ie suffered the irreversible failure of his body's life systems.

The problem then becomes to explain the resurrection stories. The stories themselves go a long way to solving that problem. None of them is by an eyewitness, none is contemporary, all are asserted by believers. Most telling of all, there are six accounts of the resurrection in the NT ─ Paul, the four gospels, and Acts 1 ─ and each of the six contradicts the others in major ways.

It has been a Christian custom to "reconcile" the accounts by selecting the details from each account that seem most likely to the selector. Unfortunately, this can only result in a seventh account that likewise disagrees with all the others in major ways.

So ─ given an historical Jesus who was crucified ─ far the strongest possibility is that he died and that the resurrection stories are unhistorical but reflect the aspirational tales of his followers.

A very distant second is that he didn't die, but left the religion industry and had a quiet life elsewhere ─ Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The da Vinci Code territory. It's highly improbable but not utterly impossible, and by a vastly greater margin it's hugely more probable than an authentic resurrection after an authentic death.
"he didn't die"

I agree.

Regards
 
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