Did Jesus Christ actually die?

[Eddi]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

 

[danieldemol]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

Sounds like what the Ahmadiyya believes, that Jesus was basically in a state near death but not actually dead.

ETA Meher Baba might have believed something similar but you would have to ask @sun rise about that for clarification.

 

[Kenny]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

It depends on your definition of death. In Genesis 2 the word "die" is plural as in more than one death. Do you really die when your body dies? No. Your spirit and soul lives on so in a sense death isn't final.

What death is final? The death of your physical body can be final unless there is a God intervention. There were a few recorded resurrections within the Bible. I believe that when it turns into dust or is cremated... its pretty final.

Did Jesus's body die? Yes. When the spear penetrated the side to his heart, the separation of the plasma and the red corpuscles was evidence of his death. If that wasn't enough, the other two hanging people had their legs broken to let them die... the fact that they didn't do it to Jesus was another confirmation that his body had die.

The act of a resurrection is what we called a miracle and verifies that God has the power to do it as well as the power to resurrect people from the grasp of sin.

 

[stvdv]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

For people who do not believe in magic and miracles it's impossible to believe Jesus was really dead
For people who have no problem with being dead and brought back to life, I guess there is no problem to believe in it

Nobody knows for sure IMO, because it's 2000 years ago and people can't be trusted nowadays, so probably also not 2000 years ago

Personally I see no problem in rising from the dead being possible

 

[pearl]

There were a few recorded resurrections within the Bible.

Yes. The Hebrew Bible knows of the translation of Enoch (Gen 5:24), a transfiguration (Saul; 1 Sam. 10:6) and an ascension (Elijah: 2 Kings 2:11), and three resurrections or resuscitations which God had carried out through the hands of the prophets. The first concerns a devout widow at Zarephath whom God had commanded, the the time of a famine, to feed the prophet Elijah, which she was willing to do despite her great poverty. When she divided her last supplies with the prophet, God multiplied her meal and oil so that she, her son and Elijah always had sufficient food during the famine. "O Lord my God, hast thou brought calamity even upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?" Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the Lord "O Lord my God, let thin child's soul come into him again." And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Elijah and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. (1Kings 17:17-24)

"So Elisha died, and they buried him. No9w bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man wa beihg buried, lo, a maruading band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet (2 Kings 13:20-21)

 

[Trailblazer]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

Based upon the scriptures of my religion, I believe that Jesus died on the cross and His soul ascended to heaven.

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85

Son of Man passage

 

[danieldemol]

For people who do not believe in magic and miracles it's impossible to believe Jesus was really dead

I disagree, it's not Jesus being dead that is hard to believe, it is His return to life that is difficult to believe, because we have no ordinary experience of such a thing happening.

So it seems to some of us like bringing back the physically dead is not part of God's MO.

Its like that saying, "Do you believe God could make a bird with gold wings and a lead heart to fly?" And its befitting response, "yes i do, but have you ever seen God make a bird with solid gold wings and a lead heart fly under its own propulsion?"

 

[oldbadger]

Did Jesus's body die? Yes. When the spear penetrated the side to his heart, the separation of the plasma and the red corpuscles was evidence of his death.

No. His lung had filled with fluids and the spear drained it , thus he could breath more easily. I have even seen that piercing performed in a hospital film.

If
that wasn't enough, the other two hanging people had their legs broken to let them die... the fact that they didn't do it to Jesus was another confirmation that his body had die.

No. The thieves would not be able to push up to take breaths, so they died. Jesus could still breath.

 

[Kenny]

No. His lung had filled with fluids and the spear drained it , thus he could breath more easily. I have even seen that piercing performed in a hospital film.

]No. The thieves would not be able to push up to take breaths, so they died. Jesus could still breath.

I wouldn't agree:

Christ's Death Under Medical Examination : Doctors' Investigation of the Crucifixion Published in AMA Journal

 

[Trailblazer]

So it seems to some of us like bringing back the physically dead is not part of God's MO.

I do not believe it is God's MO, but the problem is that some Bible stories say that God did bring people back to life, and that is why some people believe it.

 

[stvdv]

I disagree, it's not Jesus being dead that is hard to believe, it is His return to life that is difficult to believe

You must have missed the part to which I replied. I replied to "Jesus being dead and came back to life", to which I replied that unless you believe in miracles the "Jesus is dead" part is hard to believe (context is important; when you omit context, of course you get strange lines)

 

[1213]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

...​

I think it means, he was in the place of death. In Biblical point of view, those who die, go to Hades or paradise, there they wait final day. So, in a way, they are not dead, but they are in the place of dead people. And God raised Jesus from there.

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

Because of that scripture, I think when body dies, the soul of human doesn’t.

 

[oldbadger]

I wouldn't agree:

Christ's Death Under Medical Examination : Doctors' Investigation of the Crucifixion Published in AMA Journal

Interesting speculation but not a final judgement.
Did you read that in the investigation?

 

[Kenny]

Interesting speculation but not a final judgement.
Did you read that in the investigation?

But isn't that always the case? Was there a Jesus or wasn't there a Jesus.

Did he die or didn't he die

Did he perform miracles or didn't he perform miracles.

The final judgment rests IMO on two fronts... our personal decision and that of God.

 

[oldbadger]

But isn't that always the case? Was there a Jesus or wasn't there a Jesus.

Did he die or didn't he die

Did he perform miracles or didn't he perform miracles.

The final judgment rests IMO on two fronts... our personal decision and that of God.

So why did you rely upon an AMA investigation report.... which eventually decided exactly as I copied, that ......
..... interesting speculation but not a final judgement? ......

 

[capumetu]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

Jesus died as a human, and rose as a spirit being on the third day following 1 Pet 3:18; 1 Cor 15:45

 

[thomas t]

Interesting speculation but not a final judgement.
Did you read that in the investigation?

I read that. But the phrase "not a final judgement" referred to how Jesus died as opposed to if Jesus died. The title of mentioned study treats Jesus's death as a given.
BTW: you couldn't back up your statement about Jesus purportedly being able to breath after the spear penetrated his body by a checkable source, apparently. I would call your statement presumption.

 

[Muffled]

So, people say that Jesus Christ rose from the dead...

But if he rose from being supposedly "dead", was he ever really dead?

Surely by definition death is final?

I think whatever condition he was in was not death

I think he returned from a state that was medically similar to death

And that if It was truly death then he wouldn't have got up again!​

I believe the body was thoroughly dead and the Spirit of God left before the body died.

 

[Muffled]

Sounds like what the Ahmadiyya believes, that Jesus was basically in a state near death but not actually dead.

ETA Meher Baba might have believed something similar but you would have to ask @sun rise about that for clarification.

I believe the evidence is to the contrary

 

[Muffled]

For people who do not believe in magic and miracles it's impossible to believe Jesus was really dead
For people who have no problem with being dead and brought back to life, I guess there is no problem to believe in it

Nobody knows for sure IMO, because it's 2000 years ago and people can't be trusted nowadays, so probably also not 2000 years ago

Personally I see no problem in rising from the dead being possible

I believe people who don't believe in magic or miracles have no basis for their beliefs.